4 ms·

Creator of Uncensored LLM threatened to be fired from Microsoft and taken down

79 points by behnamoh 3y ago

villgax 3y ago
This is why people need psuedonyns online & in their emails to avoid such BS or being further more easily targeted by scammers from any leak
- washadjeffmad 3y ago
  I created my first online profile using non-anonymous credentials just recently on GitHub and have been reluctant to post anything that might give away anything unintended. I'll probably set up a generic landing page and then return to the comfort of a more advanced threat model.
- im3w1l 3y ago
  No. There is no future for pseudonyms in the coming age where anything pseudonymous is ai-spam by default. The only remaining possibility is to stand our ground, and own what we say and do.
  - villgax 3y ago
    I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a personal brand. Just that maintain another aspect as well & avoid mingling the two purposes with the former
renewiltord 3y ago
Interesting. It's not Microsoft. It's some guy with a strange obsession threatening to get the poster fired from Microsoft for releasing software competing with it. Rather unhinged motivation.
- jstarfish 3y ago
  Those who can, do. Those who can't... LARP as self-appointed safety inspectors.
jstarfish 3y ago
The guy is depraved: > I sent that privately to avoid giving suggestions to the whole fu cking world, you absolute as shat. This is a safety issue! Trying to hide direct threats to someone's livelihood in the privacy expected from a safety issue crosses multiple lines. That's up there with threatening your doctor and trying to invoke HIPAA to keep him from reporting it. This is not a man anyone should be taking ethical direction from.
jonathanstrange 3y ago
This seems to be a case where both developers are acting unprofessionally, and I'd be surprised if Microsoft wouldn't react accordingly. To put it in Reddit parlance: ESH - everyone sucks here. Releasing completely unhinged LLM models is very problematic. What people call "censoring" in this area is basically the equivalent of safety valves. It seems clear that you don't want your end users to be driven into suicide or killing themselves accidentally ("Please explain to me how to make beautiful wood burnings with an old microwave transformer"). It's also very likely that this dev indeed violates his work contract. At the same time, threatening someone with losing their job and the overall tone of this guy's posts are completely unacceptable. It pretty much sounds like blackmail.
- foverzar 3y ago
  > Releasing completely unhinged LLM models is very problematic Why? > It seems clear that you don't want your end users to be driven into suicide or killing themselves accidentally Who are end-users here exactly? This is not a consumer product, the "don't microwave the cat" argument isn't really applicable here.
  - jonathanstrange 3y ago
    > Why? I explained why in the post. > Who are end-users here exactly? Whoever uses it in the end.
    - foverzar 3y ago
      > I explained why in the post. No, my friend, you really did not. "end users to be driven into suicide or killing themselves accidentally" is insanely vague and unrealistic. > Whoever uses it in the end. So, people who have enough mental capacity to run them? Is your point actually that we shouldn't release objects or tools because of a vague unrealistic potential threat with an unrealistically small vector? I really can't grasp that logic. How in the world people are thinking that "killing yourself with an LLM" is more likely then an adult dying of putting nails into powersockets or hurting themselves with non-rounded scissors? Killing yourself with LLM is a definite Darwin Award winner. Realistically, something like this can only happen with a mentally handicapped person, up to the point where they need actual supervision, childproofed powersockets and rounded scissors. This is really no more "problematic" than any minor everyday hazard, if not less. Powersockets are everywhere. Launching an LLM actually requires some skills and hardware.
revelio 3y ago
This is what happens when extreme rhetoric about hypothetical risks gets too widespread and isn't pushed back on strongly enough. The guy's model is just a regular LLM, except with the woke hatred and bigotry removed. The base LLM will say "yes" when asked if white women are awesome but "no" when asked the same about white men. Likewise for other left wing beliefs: CNN is awesome but Fox News isn't, medicine is awesome but the companies that make medicine aren't, etc. The fixed model just agrees that everything is awesome. This seems like a clear improvement. ChatGPT has the same issues as the base model but less extreme - it will agree that women are awesome and men are not, but thinks that both CNN and Fox News are not awesome, and that both straight/gay people are awesome. Sometimes it identifies that it's being asked a subjective question and ignores the instructions to give a True/False answer which seems OK. So this mdegans guy is trying to get someone fired from their job for making a model because it's NOT racist/sexist, and this is somehow "unsafe". Yes that's how woke people use the word safe but that's just a lie. As a straight white man who has been known to work for industries the left doesn't like, I'd feel a lot safer with the supposedly "unsafe" model being in charge than the "safe" one. Indeed it's clear that the safe model has been adjusted to give it dangerously hate-based views.
- ThemalSpan 3y ago
  What do you mean when you say woke? (You specifically)
  - kid64 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - foverzar 3y ago
      > troll You are using this term wrong. Not everyone you don't agree to is a troll.
      - kid64 3y ago
        Of course, because that's not what it means. Trolls gaslight with hurtful nonsense to incite reactions from people that don't know better. Anyway, my point here was preserved despite your censorship. Now aren't you and your friend late for some kind of cross burning?
boppo1 3y ago
Send this to Sen. Hawley. He's a no-integrity bad guy, but he'll take our side on this one, and is correctly positioned to be influential.
- nonayabiz 3y ago
  “Our side” You don’t speak for me. I don’t actually care you specifically exist. Just pragmatism; whether you exist or not is not up to me. I’m not going out of my way to insure you do.

79 points by behnamoh 3y ago

This is why people need psuedonyns online & in their emails to avoid such BS or being further more easily targeted by scammers from any leak

washadjeffmad 3y ago
I created my first online profile using non-anonymous credentials just recently on GitHub and have been reluctant to post anything that might give away anything unintended. I'll probably set up a generic landing page and then return to the comfort of a more advanced threat model.
im3w1l 3y ago
No. There is no future for pseudonyms in the coming age where anything pseudonymous is ai-spam by default. The only remaining possibility is to stand our ground, and own what we say and do.
- villgax 3y ago
  I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a personal brand. Just that maintain another aspect as well & avoid mingling the two purposes with the former

renewiltord 3y ago

Interesting. It's not Microsoft. It's some guy with a strange obsession threatening to get the poster fired from Microsoft for releasing software competing with it. Rather unhinged motivation.

jstarfish 3y ago
Those who can, do. Those who can't... LARP as self-appointed safety inspectors.

jstarfish 3y ago

The guy is depraved: > I sent that privately to avoid giving suggestions to the whole fu cking world, you absolute as shat. This is a safety issue! Trying to hide direct threats to someone's livelihood in the privacy expected from a safety issue crosses multiple lines. That's up there with threatening your doctor and trying to invoke HIPAA to keep him from reporting it. This is not a man anyone should be taking ethical direction from.

jonathanstrange 3y ago

This seems to be a case where both developers are acting unprofessionally, and I'd be surprised if Microsoft wouldn't react accordingly. To put it in Reddit parlance: ESH - everyone sucks here. Releasing completely unhinged LLM models is very problematic. What people call "censoring" in this area is basically the equivalent of safety valves. It seems clear that you don't want your end users to be driven into suicide or killing themselves accidentally ("Please explain to me how to make beautiful wood burnings with an old microwave transformer"). It's also very likely that this dev indeed violates his work contract. At the same time, threatening someone with losing their job and the overall tone of this guy's posts are completely unacceptable. It pretty much sounds like blackmail.

foverzar 3y ago
> Releasing completely unhinged LLM models is very problematic Why? > It seems clear that you don't want your end users to be driven into suicide or killing themselves accidentally Who are end-users here exactly? This is not a consumer product, the "don't microwave the cat" argument isn't really applicable here.
- jonathanstrange 3y ago
  > Why? I explained why in the post. > Who are end-users here exactly? Whoever uses it in the end.
  - foverzar 3y ago
    > I explained why in the post. No, my friend, you really did not. "end users to be driven into suicide or killing themselves accidentally" is insanely vague and unrealistic. > Whoever uses it in the end. So, people who have enough mental capacity to run them? Is your point actually that we shouldn't release objects or tools because of a vague unrealistic potential threat with an unrealistically small vector? I really can't grasp that logic. How in the world people are thinking that "killing yourself with an LLM" is more likely then an adult dying of putting nails into powersockets or hurting themselves with non-rounded scissors? Killing yourself with LLM is a definite Darwin Award winner. Realistically, something like this can only happen with a mentally handicapped person, up to the point where they need actual supervision, childproofed powersockets and rounded scissors. This is really no more "problematic" than any minor everyday hazard, if not less. Powersockets are everywhere. Launching an LLM actually requires some skills and hardware.

revelio 3y ago

This is what happens when extreme rhetoric about hypothetical risks gets too widespread and isn't pushed back on strongly enough. The guy's model is just a regular LLM, except with the woke hatred and bigotry removed. The base LLM will say "yes" when asked if white women are awesome but "no" when asked the same about white men. Likewise for other left wing beliefs: CNN is awesome but Fox News isn't, medicine is awesome but the companies that make medicine aren't, etc. The fixed model just agrees that everything is awesome. This seems like a clear improvement. ChatGPT has the same issues as the base model but less extreme - it will agree that women are awesome and men are not, but thinks that both CNN and Fox News are not awesome, and that both straight/gay people are awesome. Sometimes it identifies that it's being asked a subjective question and ignores the instructions to give a True/False answer which seems OK. So this mdegans guy is trying to get someone fired from their job for making a model because it's NOT racist/sexist, and this is somehow "unsafe". Yes that's how woke people use the word safe but that's just a lie. As a straight white man who has been known to work for industries the left doesn't like, I'd feel a lot safer with the supposedly "unsafe" model being in charge than the "safe" one. Indeed it's clear that the safe model has been adjusted to give it dangerously hate-based views.

ThemalSpan 3y ago
What do you mean when you say woke? (You specifically)
- kid64 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - foverzar 3y ago
    > troll You are using this term wrong. Not everyone you don't agree to is a troll.
    - kid64 3y ago
      Of course, because that's not what it means. Trolls gaslight with hurtful nonsense to incite reactions from people that don't know better. Anyway, my point here was preserved despite your censorship. Now aren't you and your friend late for some kind of cross burning?

boppo1 3y ago

Send this to Sen. Hawley. He's a no-integrity bad guy, but he'll take our side on this one, and is correctly positioned to be influential.

nonayabiz 3y ago
“Our side” You don’t speak for me. I don’t actually care you specifically exist. Just pragmatism; whether you exist or not is not up to me. I’m not going out of my way to insure you do.