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Social responsibility in CS, in my experience, means that if a given function doesn't produce equal outputs for two given inputs, all it takes to suggest that t

Social responsibility in CS, in my experience, means that if a given function doesn't produce equal outputs for two given inputs, all it takes to suggest that the function is biased is an assertion that the outputs should have been the same if the function weren't biased. How different the inputs were, even along the criteria that the function actually uses in order to produce its output, is completely irrelevant.

shadowgovt 3y ago
Functions are tools for humans to cause the computer to achieve a desired output. If the function isn't generating the desired output, change the function. We can talk all day about how the history of facial recognition has used things like the eye-nose-mouth T-shape or high-contrast contours to lock in on the target, but if at the end of the day the solution works for people with light skin and not people with dark skin, "HP computers are racist" for every meaningful (i.e. user-experienced) definition of the concept. (reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4DT3tQqgRM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4DT3tQqgRM)
- ralusek 3y ago
  > How different the inputs were, even along the criteria that the function actually uses in order to produce its output, is completely irrelevant This is why I said this. The example you gave, where software was trained on people with lighter skin and therefore doesn't produce the intended results on people with darker skin, is noncontroversially racially biased. As in, control for everything but skin color, and the color of someone's skin is actually a parameter that the function "uses" in order to produce its output. For this reason, people tend to agree that this is an actual problem with the program that needs fixing.
  - shadowgovt 3y ago
    I follow. Can you give a concrete example of what you mean? "How different the inputs were, even along the criteria that the function actually uses in order to produce its output, is completely irrelevant..." In what context did this come up?

shadowgovt 3y ago

Functions are tools for humans to cause the computer to achieve a desired output. If the function isn't generating the desired output, change the function. We can talk all day about how the history of facial recognition has used things like the eye-nose-mouth T-shape or high-contrast contours to lock in on the target, but if at the end of the day the solution works for people with light skin and not people with dark skin, "HP computers are racist" for every meaningful (i.e. user-experienced) definition of the concept. (reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4DT3tQqgRM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4DT3tQqgRM)

ralusek 3y ago
> How different the inputs were, even along the criteria that the function actually uses in order to produce its output, is completely irrelevant This is why I said this. The example you gave, where software was trained on people with lighter skin and therefore doesn't produce the intended results on people with darker skin, is noncontroversially racially biased. As in, control for everything but skin color, and the color of someone's skin is actually a parameter that the function "uses" in order to produce its output. For this reason, people tend to agree that this is an actual problem with the program that needs fixing.
- shadowgovt 3y ago
  I follow. Can you give a concrete example of what you mean? "How different the inputs were, even along the criteria that the function actually uses in order to produce its output, is completely irrelevant..." In what context did this come up?