4 ms·

> I'd like for humanity to keep going until the average Sri Lankan or Congolese can live like the average Texan or Swiss does now What if the average Texan cou

> I'd like for humanity to keep going until the average Sri Lankan or Congolese can live like the average Texan or Swiss does now What if the average Texan could use 1/2 as much energy as they do now and still have a decent lifestyle? Even a better lifestyle. In a lot of ways cars are not healthy for us, for example. What if we made more of our trips on ebikes, for example? Much less energy use and a bit of exercise. I'm not sure the average Sri Lankan wants to be as obese as the average Texan - similar for rates of diabetes. I think Sri Lankans can do better than the average Texan by keeping their cities walkable (and bikeable) and not putting in a lot of car-centric development which is the norm in Texas.

prottog 3y ago
> What if the average Texan could use 1/2 as much energy as they do now and still have a decent lifestyle? Absolutely! This would be marvelous, and can happen through technological advances. Imagine if a lifted F-250 could still get 50mpg ;-) Jokes aside, you are quite right that an abundance material wealth can sometimes go hand in hand with unhealthy lifestyles. Better to die of too much than too little, I suppose; Texas and Sri Lanka actually have life expectancies very close to each other, at 76 years and change, but in those 76 years, the Texan would have had many more opportunities at the pursuit of happiness than the Sri Lankan, enabled by an order of a magnitude higher energy expenditure per capita.
- UncleOxidant 3y ago
  > but in those 76 years, the Texan would have had many more opportunities at the pursuit of happiness than the Sri Lankan I'm not sure we can assume that. Sri Lankans might have much less loneliness than Texans, for example. Many of components of happiness don't require large expenditures of money or energy. The US has one of the most isolating cultures in the world - and thus high levels of loneliness. For example, many cultures have what the Italians call La passeggiata which is the evening gathering in a piazza (or similar gathering place in other cultures). People stroll around and chat with neighbors and friends in the sunnier parts of the year. It's something that we Americans tend to be envious of - we don't have this. Instead we fight traffic.
  - prottog 3y ago
    Believe me, you and I cannot be more in agreement about the isolating effects of the typical modern suburban American life, though that does vary among subgroups within the US, and "we don't have this" is not categorically true. Religious people are much more likely to report being happier (among other beneficial things), for example[0], and anecdotally I notice the same; church is a social event for most people. But the fact remains that Sri Lankans immigrate to the US while Americans don't immigrate to Sri Lanka. This is true even for developed countries; in 2018, there were 321k Italians living in the US[1], compared to 15k Americans living in Italy[2], meaning a full half percent of Italians gave up la passeggiata to be in America, whereas 0.005% of Americans did the reverse. If people vote with their feet, they are voting for money and energy over happiness. I do wish the average American had more access to healthy social lives. [0]: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/01/31/religions-relationship-to-happiness-civic-engagement-and-health-around-the-world/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/01/31/religions-re... [1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s-immigrants-current-data/ https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Italy
    - nine_zeros 3y ago
      Sri Lankans are immigrating for money and opportunity, not for a happy social life. People who seek happy social life tend to not immigrate to America, or often return back.
    - pasabagi 3y ago
      I think people tend to move where the economy is hot. The reasons are obvious: it's not fun sitting at your mum's house, while everybody thinks you're a loser, essentially because the economy is averaging negative GDP growth year on year, and nobody is getting hired. That's mostly a social thing, not a lifestyle thing. Being unemployed in Italy (or really anywhere) is worse than having a decent job basically anywhere else.
  - carlmr 3y ago
    >People stroll around and chat with neighbors and friends in the sunnier part so the year. It's something that we Americans tend to be envious of - we don't have this. Instead we fight traffic. Another thing which I missed every time I was in the states or Canada. You can't just chill in a café for hours. You have to keep consuming constantly, otherwise the waiters start pushing you out. In most parts of the world you don't need to pay to just exist. Of course there's the expectation that you order something. But not that you leave right away.
josephcsible 3y ago
> What if the average Texan could use 1/2 as much energy as they do now and still have a decent lifestyle? Does "still have a decent lifestyle" mean "still have just as good (or better) of a lifestyle" or "have a lifestyle that's only somewhat worse"? If the former, then won't basic economics make it happen automatically without needing to involve politics or force anyone to change anything?
nine_k 3y ago
I suppose a Texan could use more energy than today, if desired, and still be "greener" than today, if the energy came from a local renewable source. Let solar panels and especially batteries grow even cheaper. Same applies to Sri Lanka; it's a very sunny place. BTW stationary batteries can be bulkier and heavier than lithium, as long as they are cheaper per kWh stored. Such chemistries exist and are actively developed.

prottog 3y ago

> What if the average Texan could use 1/2 as much energy as they do now and still have a decent lifestyle? Absolutely! This would be marvelous, and can happen through technological advances. Imagine if a lifted F-250 could still get 50mpg ;-) Jokes aside, you are quite right that an abundance material wealth can sometimes go hand in hand with unhealthy lifestyles. Better to die of too much than too little, I suppose; Texas and Sri Lanka actually have life expectancies very close to each other, at 76 years and change, but in those 76 years, the Texan would have had many more opportunities at the pursuit of happiness than the Sri Lankan, enabled by an order of a magnitude higher energy expenditure per capita.

UncleOxidant 3y ago
> but in those 76 years, the Texan would have had many more opportunities at the pursuit of happiness than the Sri Lankan I'm not sure we can assume that. Sri Lankans might have much less loneliness than Texans, for example. Many of components of happiness don't require large expenditures of money or energy. The US has one of the most isolating cultures in the world - and thus high levels of loneliness. For example, many cultures have what the Italians call La passeggiata which is the evening gathering in a piazza (or similar gathering place in other cultures). People stroll around and chat with neighbors and friends in the sunnier parts of the year. It's something that we Americans tend to be envious of - we don't have this. Instead we fight traffic.
- prottog 3y ago
  Believe me, you and I cannot be more in agreement about the isolating effects of the typical modern suburban American life, though that does vary among subgroups within the US, and "we don't have this" is not categorically true. Religious people are much more likely to report being happier (among other beneficial things), for example[0], and anecdotally I notice the same; church is a social event for most people. But the fact remains that Sri Lankans immigrate to the US while Americans don't immigrate to Sri Lanka. This is true even for developed countries; in 2018, there were 321k Italians living in the US[1], compared to 15k Americans living in Italy[2], meaning a full half percent of Italians gave up la passeggiata to be in America, whereas 0.005% of Americans did the reverse. If people vote with their feet, they are voting for money and energy over happiness. I do wish the average American had more access to healthy social lives. [0]: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/01/31/religions-relationship-to-happiness-civic-engagement-and-health-around-the-world/ https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/01/31/religions-re... [1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s-immigrants-current-data/ https://www.pewresearch.org/hispanic/2020/08/20/facts-on-u-s... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Italy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Italy
  - nine_zeros 3y ago
    Sri Lankans are immigrating for money and opportunity, not for a happy social life. People who seek happy social life tend to not immigrate to America, or often return back.
  - pasabagi 3y ago
    I think people tend to move where the economy is hot. The reasons are obvious: it's not fun sitting at your mum's house, while everybody thinks you're a loser, essentially because the economy is averaging negative GDP growth year on year, and nobody is getting hired. That's mostly a social thing, not a lifestyle thing. Being unemployed in Italy (or really anywhere) is worse than having a decent job basically anywhere else.
- carlmr 3y ago
  >People stroll around and chat with neighbors and friends in the sunnier part so the year. It's something that we Americans tend to be envious of - we don't have this. Instead we fight traffic. Another thing which I missed every time I was in the states or Canada. You can't just chill in a café for hours. You have to keep consuming constantly, otherwise the waiters start pushing you out. In most parts of the world you don't need to pay to just exist. Of course there's the expectation that you order something. But not that you leave right away.

josephcsible 3y ago

> What if the average Texan could use 1/2 as much energy as they do now and still have a decent lifestyle? Does "still have a decent lifestyle" mean "still have just as good (or better) of a lifestyle" or "have a lifestyle that's only somewhat worse"? If the former, then won't basic economics make it happen automatically without needing to involve politics or force anyone to change anything?

nine_k 3y ago

I suppose a Texan could use more energy than today, if desired, and still be "greener" than today, if the energy came from a local renewable source. Let solar panels and especially batteries grow even cheaper. Same applies to Sri Lanka; it's a very sunny place. BTW stationary batteries can be bulkier and heavier than lithium, as long as they are cheaper per kWh stored. Such chemistries exist and are actively developed.