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1998 analytics used Apache log files as the only source. Wondering if Apache log files are GDPR complient or not.

londons_explore 3y ago
Most GDPR experts will tell you that traditional log files aren't compliant. They contain personally identifiable information (IP address), and you didn't get consent from the user before collecting it, nor are they required to provide the service the user requested.
- vince14 3y ago
  https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-49/ https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-49/ > Network and Information Security as Overriding Legitimate Interest > stopping ‘denial of service’ attacks Storing logs with IPs is no problem at all.
  - mpeg 3y ago
    Storing the log files (or IP addresses in general) is not a problem IF you're using them only with a legitimate interest basis. For instance, you can use this stored IP address to help identify whether your user has had their account breached, and prompt for extra verification before letting them log in. You can also do a full browser fingerprint for this purpose, this is all covered under legitimate basis. However, once you use any of this data to market to the user then you are in breach of the GDPR as you did not have a consent basis for it. The storage was never a problem, it's the use of it that becomes a problem.
    - justinzollars 3y ago
      Sounds like there could be an opportunity here for a GDPR noncompliant analytics product. Personally, my customers are in the United States and I don't want ambiguity in my analytics because of Lawyers who reside outside of my jurisdiction.
      - LunaSea 3y ago
        If your customers are of a European nationality you will need to comply as well.
        mpeg 3y ago
        Technically correct, but arguable... There are lots of UK and EU-based companies that blatantly breach the GDPR and get away with it as the regulatory bodies don't have the resources to chase after every breach at home, let alone abroad. Unless you are a huge company or have a significant amount of customers in the UK/EU it's probably okay to ignore the GDPR.
    - cccbbbaaa 3y ago
      You're mostly right, but legitimate interest also require balance. Fingerprinting may be considered to be too intrusive if logs are enough.
      - mpeg 3y ago
        Depends on the product, payments products generally use fingerprinting and present extra prompts if you're using an unknown device – that is kind of one of the main problems of the GDPR though, there are nuances and it's usually not white and black what can be done without specialised legal counsel (and sometimes, even then...)
  - LunaSea 3y ago
    Your interpretation is incorrect. You have the right to log IP addresses only if they are used for the two purposes you listed, otherwise you will need explicit consent.
- cccbbbaaa 3y ago
  CNIL disagrees and says you can need them to secure your service. Legitimate interest (art. 6(1)f) is applicable (recital 49). You can also be required by law to keep them for some time, so legal requirement is applicable (art. 6(1)c). Other uses may require consent. Cf: https://www.cnil.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/recommandation_-_journalisation.pdf https://www.cnil.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/recomman... (in French, though)
  - whstl 3y ago
    Exactly. It's not just about what you collect and store, but also about what you do with the information. You can freely collect data as a legal requirement, or for "legitimate interest" purposes such as fraud prevention. But you can't use the data you just collected for analytics without proper consent.
    - mpeg 3y ago
      Contractual basis too, is often the easiest way to collect and store PII. Eg if you have a contract with someone you can often store a lot of their data to fulfil the contract. There is meant to be a sense of proportionality, but as many things with privacy laws it's subject to interpretation and intentionally left vague.
justinzollars 3y ago
1998 Apache log files were wonderful. I could see everything.
- influx 3y ago
  Urchin, the company Google acquired to make Google Analytics could process Apache Log files. It was really great.
  - justinzollars 3y ago
    sounds like an awesome company for its time!

Most GDPR experts will tell you that traditional log files aren't compliant. They contain personally identifiable information (IP address), and you didn't get consent from the user before collecting it, nor are they required to provide the service the user requested.

vince14 3y ago
https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-49/ https://gdpr-info.eu/recitals/no-49/ > Network and Information Security as Overriding Legitimate Interest > stopping ‘denial of service’ attacks Storing logs with IPs is no problem at all.
- mpeg 3y ago
  Storing the log files (or IP addresses in general) is not a problem IF you're using them only with a legitimate interest basis. For instance, you can use this stored IP address to help identify whether your user has had their account breached, and prompt for extra verification before letting them log in. You can also do a full browser fingerprint for this purpose, this is all covered under legitimate basis. However, once you use any of this data to market to the user then you are in breach of the GDPR as you did not have a consent basis for it. The storage was never a problem, it's the use of it that becomes a problem.
  - justinzollars 3y ago
    Sounds like there could be an opportunity here for a GDPR noncompliant analytics product. Personally, my customers are in the United States and I don't want ambiguity in my analytics because of Lawyers who reside outside of my jurisdiction.
    - LunaSea 3y ago
      If your customers are of a European nationality you will need to comply as well.
      - mpeg 3y ago
        Technically correct, but arguable... There are lots of UK and EU-based companies that blatantly breach the GDPR and get away with it as the regulatory bodies don't have the resources to chase after every breach at home, let alone abroad. Unless you are a huge company or have a significant amount of customers in the UK/EU it's probably okay to ignore the GDPR.
  - cccbbbaaa 3y ago
    You're mostly right, but legitimate interest also require balance. Fingerprinting may be considered to be too intrusive if logs are enough.
    - mpeg 3y ago
      Depends on the product, payments products generally use fingerprinting and present extra prompts if you're using an unknown device – that is kind of one of the main problems of the GDPR though, there are nuances and it's usually not white and black what can be done without specialised legal counsel (and sometimes, even then...)
- LunaSea 3y ago
  Your interpretation is incorrect. You have the right to log IP addresses only if they are used for the two purposes you listed, otherwise you will need explicit consent.
cccbbbaaa 3y ago
CNIL disagrees and says you can need them to secure your service. Legitimate interest (art. 6(1)f) is applicable (recital 49). You can also be required by law to keep them for some time, so legal requirement is applicable (art. 6(1)c). Other uses may require consent. Cf: https://www.cnil.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/recommandation_-_journalisation.pdf https://www.cnil.fr/sites/default/files/atoms/files/recomman... (in French, though)
- whstl 3y ago
  Exactly. It's not just about what you collect and store, but also about what you do with the information. You can freely collect data as a legal requirement, or for "legitimate interest" purposes such as fraud prevention. But you can't use the data you just collected for analytics without proper consent.
  - mpeg 3y ago
    Contractual basis too, is often the easiest way to collect and store PII. Eg if you have a contract with someone you can often store a lot of their data to fulfil the contract. There is meant to be a sense of proportionality, but as many things with privacy laws it's subject to interpretation and intentionally left vague.

justinzollars 3y ago

1998 Apache log files were wonderful. I could see everything.

influx 3y ago
Urchin, the company Google acquired to make Google Analytics could process Apache Log files. It was really great.
- justinzollars 3y ago
  sounds like an awesome company for its time!