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I think it's important to realize that (at least in the US) houses are considered not only an investment - but basically one of the keys to retirement. Getting

I think it's important to realize that (at least in the US) houses are considered not only an investment - but basically one of the keys to retirement. Getting into a house, waiting for the market to gradually go up over your lifetime and then selling it to retire on that profit is how a lot of people get by. It's not a good system, but it's how it's worked for awhile now. So price and growth is everything, because people don't want to be working when they're 80 yrs+. It's not like the past where great retirement benefits were commonplace.

wnolens 3y ago
Not sure why you got downvoted. This is (was?) almost the only working playbook in Canada to secure retirement.
- klodolph 3y ago
  And now housing prices for large portions of the Canadian population (e.g. GTA) are so high that the prices only make sense if you're going in it for price speculation. If you treat your Canadian house as an investment, the only way that you could possibly come out ahead is if you sell it later for an even higher price.
  - fundad 3y ago
    > only way that you could possibly come out ahead is if you sell it later for an even higher price Wait really? Can you start over?
    - klodolph 3y ago
      Start over? People believe that renters are throwing their money away, and home owners are building equity when they make their mortgage payments. This belief is definitely wrong in Toronto. If you do the math, you stand a better chance building equity as a renter. Homeowners are the ones throwing their money away. The only thing that tips the scales is the fact that a future buyer may pay more money. Basically, you need a bigger sucker to buy the house. The government in Canada has set up policies to make sure that the prices keep going up. Eventually it will become infeasible—the prices get too high and you run out of suckers.
      - wnolens 3y ago
        Yes every time I do the math I come to the same conclusion. And then I'm proven wrong by unexpected price appreciation. The thing that tips the scale is a house has way more square footage. You're worse off solo paying rent vs mortgage, but with that extra space you can host an Airbnb and come out ahead. > Eventually it will become infeasible—the prices get too high and you run out of suckers. People say that.. but it hasn't happened, barely a lull. I think that's a very local-centric opinion. Visit other dense cities around the world. Demand to live in cities increases with time as the city offers more economic opportunity and tourism. And supply is mostly fixed (for a given unit area) due to zoning laws. I'm still considering to be one of their suckers in Toronto.
ninkendo 3y ago
> Getting into a house, waiting for the market to gradually go up over your lifetime and then selling it to retire on that profit But where do you live after you sell your house? By that point it’s likely you’ve paid off your mortgage, so renting means you now have more money going out each month. Or you buy another house and there goes all your profit. You can downsize, I guess? Not everyone wants to do that, or not everyone lives in a house you can downsize from (ie it may already be small.)
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  Renting does mean more money going out, but with a good enough house that doesn't matter - once it is sold it's such a large sum that they can live the rest of their life in comfort.

wnolens 3y ago

Not sure why you got downvoted. This is (was?) almost the only working playbook in Canada to secure retirement.

klodolph 3y ago
And now housing prices for large portions of the Canadian population (e.g. GTA) are so high that the prices only make sense if you're going in it for price speculation. If you treat your Canadian house as an investment, the only way that you could possibly come out ahead is if you sell it later for an even higher price.
- fundad 3y ago
  > only way that you could possibly come out ahead is if you sell it later for an even higher price Wait really? Can you start over?
  - klodolph 3y ago
    Start over? People believe that renters are throwing their money away, and home owners are building equity when they make their mortgage payments. This belief is definitely wrong in Toronto. If you do the math, you stand a better chance building equity as a renter. Homeowners are the ones throwing their money away. The only thing that tips the scales is the fact that a future buyer may pay more money. Basically, you need a bigger sucker to buy the house. The government in Canada has set up policies to make sure that the prices keep going up. Eventually it will become infeasible—the prices get too high and you run out of suckers.
    - wnolens 3y ago
      Yes every time I do the math I come to the same conclusion. And then I'm proven wrong by unexpected price appreciation. The thing that tips the scale is a house has way more square footage. You're worse off solo paying rent vs mortgage, but with that extra space you can host an Airbnb and come out ahead. > Eventually it will become infeasible—the prices get too high and you run out of suckers. People say that.. but it hasn't happened, barely a lull. I think that's a very local-centric opinion. Visit other dense cities around the world. Demand to live in cities increases with time as the city offers more economic opportunity and tourism. And supply is mostly fixed (for a given unit area) due to zoning laws. I'm still considering to be one of their suckers in Toronto.

ninkendo 3y ago

> Getting into a house, waiting for the market to gradually go up over your lifetime and then selling it to retire on that profit But where do you live after you sell your house? By that point it’s likely you’ve paid off your mortgage, so renting means you now have more money going out each month. Or you buy another house and there goes all your profit. You can downsize, I guess? Not everyone wants to do that, or not everyone lives in a house you can downsize from (ie it may already be small.)

Night_Thastus 3y ago
Renting does mean more money going out, but with a good enough house that doesn't matter - once it is sold it's such a large sum that they can live the rest of their life in comfort.