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Man am I in the minority for not wanting to move cause I love the place I live? Everybody’s talking about money, as if they’re $100k away from uprooting and se

Man am I in the minority for not wanting to move cause I love the place I live? Everybody’s talking about money, as if they’re $100k away from uprooting and setting up shop somewhere else, but like - why? What’s so bad about the place you’re at? All my friends are here. All my favorite things are here. It’s beautiful here. My family is here. Why would I want to live somewhere else? I bought a house here, yes it was a good investment, yes I’m holding onto my low interest rate for dear life, but - the reason I bought a house here in the first place is because I didn’t want to be anywhere else. If I wanted to live in Seattle or LA or NYC then I’d have moved there a long time ago - I’m certainly not going to do it now, for work, of all things.

Night_Thastus 3y ago
I think it's important to realize that (at least in the US) houses are considered not only an investment - but basically one of the keys to retirement. Getting into a house, waiting for the market to gradually go up over your lifetime and then selling it to retire on that profit is how a lot of people get by. It's not a good system, but it's how it's worked for awhile now. So price and growth is everything, because people don't want to be working when they're 80 yrs+. It's not like the past where great retirement benefits were commonplace.
- wnolens 3y ago
  Not sure why you got downvoted. This is (was?) almost the only working playbook in Canada to secure retirement.
  - klodolph 3y ago
    And now housing prices for large portions of the Canadian population (e.g. GTA) are so high that the prices only make sense if you're going in it for price speculation. If you treat your Canadian house as an investment, the only way that you could possibly come out ahead is if you sell it later for an even higher price.
    - fundad 3y ago
      > only way that you could possibly come out ahead is if you sell it later for an even higher price Wait really? Can you start over?
      - klodolph 3y ago
        Start over? People believe that renters are throwing their money away, and home owners are building equity when they make their mortgage payments. This belief is definitely wrong in Toronto. If you do the math, you stand a better chance building equity as a renter. Homeowners are the ones throwing their money away. The only thing that tips the scales is the fact that a future buyer may pay more money. Basically, you need a bigger sucker to buy the house. The government in Canada has set up policies to make sure that the prices keep going up. Eventually it will become infeasible—the prices get too high and you run out of suckers.
        wnolens 3y ago
        Yes every time I do the math I come to the same conclusion. And then I'm proven wrong by unexpected price appreciation. The thing that tips the scale is a house has way more square footage. You're worse off solo paying rent vs mortgage, but with that extra space you can host an Airbnb and come out ahead. > Eventually it will become infeasible—the prices get too high and you run out of suckers. People say that.. but it hasn't happened, barely a lull. I think that's a very local-centric opinion. Visit other dense cities around the world. Demand to live in cities increases with time as the city offers more economic opportunity and tourism. And supply is mostly fixed (for a given unit area) due to zoning laws. I'm still considering to be one of their suckers in Toronto.
- ninkendo 3y ago
  > Getting into a house, waiting for the market to gradually go up over your lifetime and then selling it to retire on that profit But where do you live after you sell your house? By that point it’s likely you’ve paid off your mortgage, so renting means you now have more money going out each month. Or you buy another house and there goes all your profit. You can downsize, I guess? Not everyone wants to do that, or not everyone lives in a house you can downsize from (ie it may already be small.)
  - Night_Thastus 3y ago
    Renting does mean more money going out, but with a good enough house that doesn't matter - once it is sold it's such a large sum that they can live the rest of their life in comfort.
fknorangesite 3y ago
> Everybody’s talking about money I agree with you, but people are talking about money because in this context it's likely money that would be (hypothetically) motivating the move in the first place.
uoaei 3y ago
Ruthless lifestyle minmax-ers are probably over-represented on this site, it comes with the intensely analytical and neurotic dispositions that are so common among those who are successful using their technical expertise. I share your view: I have a group of close friends and a wider network of fun people that I cherish. It's probably the only thing keeping me from exercising my dual citizenship and moving to Europe to have a chance at a decent life away from such obscene rat-race-driven market dynamics.
- fundad 3y ago
  What do these friends do for you that you won’t move to Europe.
  - uoaei 3y ago
    That's a good question. I can try to answer in the space this input box provides but probably won't capture all of it. In German, there is a word, gemütlichkeit, with no precise English translation but which can be approximated as "the coziness and lack of anxiousness you feel among people you love and trust". There is simply no way to achieve that as a social animal except in developing deep friendships. In particular, I think there is immense value in knowing and being known, concisely, "intimacy". Not having to hide any part of yourself, and being every bit of you that you can be, can be hard in settings where you don't have a persistent support network of close friends who are willing and able to accept you as you are (feelings which you would reciprocate, because you love those people). Feeling accepted by your community is the only antidote to loneliness. Building a network like that takes a lot of time and a certain amount of effort and good fortune. I would be dreading that effort necessary to build new connections from scratch to feel welcome in the communities I wish to be a part of. Keeping up online really doesn't achieve that kind of intimacy unless you're a certain kind of person who can easily bounce between many different social settings/relationships and can get by with a certain shallowness in the "how've you been lately" arena. And flying back and forth all the time goes against my ethics with respect to carbon emissions, not to mention the expense and routine hassle of it all.
    - 3y ago
thefourthchime 3y ago
I feel the same way, I live in Austin. Where do you live?
- mock-possum 3y ago
  Portland. Some things have gotten worse, some things have gotten better - much like myself. But it’s still here, and so am I. I haven’t found any other place I’d rather be.
mariojv 3y ago
I agree with you in that money's not enough to draw me away from where I live, but you can love where you live and recognize that you need flexibility. I think, all things equal, setting down roots is a great thing, but it can be hard for some. My husband and I live in Texas as a gay married couple and have "exit criteria" where we'd leave if marriage were threatened, which is in the official platform of the party that controls every branch of government here. My extended family in different generations have left 2 different countries during various stages of dictatorship and unrest, so they are also light-footed despite loving where they currently live. The higher paycheck, properly managed, can often buy you the freedom to exit a perilous situation for you and your loved ones. I can understand why some people prefer the high pay over a particular living situation, even if it's not for me. I'm choosing to set up roots where I am and be optimistic about the future, but I'm lucky enough to have an actionable exit plan for my family should the need arise.

Night_Thastus 3y ago

I think it's important to realize that (at least in the US) houses are considered not only an investment - but basically one of the keys to retirement. Getting into a house, waiting for the market to gradually go up over your lifetime and then selling it to retire on that profit is how a lot of people get by. It's not a good system, but it's how it's worked for awhile now. So price and growth is everything, because people don't want to be working when they're 80 yrs+. It's not like the past where great retirement benefits were commonplace.

wnolens 3y ago
Not sure why you got downvoted. This is (was?) almost the only working playbook in Canada to secure retirement.
- klodolph 3y ago
  And now housing prices for large portions of the Canadian population (e.g. GTA) are so high that the prices only make sense if you're going in it for price speculation. If you treat your Canadian house as an investment, the only way that you could possibly come out ahead is if you sell it later for an even higher price.
  - fundad 3y ago
    > only way that you could possibly come out ahead is if you sell it later for an even higher price Wait really? Can you start over?
    - klodolph 3y ago
      Start over? People believe that renters are throwing their money away, and home owners are building equity when they make their mortgage payments. This belief is definitely wrong in Toronto. If you do the math, you stand a better chance building equity as a renter. Homeowners are the ones throwing their money away. The only thing that tips the scales is the fact that a future buyer may pay more money. Basically, you need a bigger sucker to buy the house. The government in Canada has set up policies to make sure that the prices keep going up. Eventually it will become infeasible—the prices get too high and you run out of suckers.
      - wnolens 3y ago
        Yes every time I do the math I come to the same conclusion. And then I'm proven wrong by unexpected price appreciation. The thing that tips the scale is a house has way more square footage. You're worse off solo paying rent vs mortgage, but with that extra space you can host an Airbnb and come out ahead. > Eventually it will become infeasible—the prices get too high and you run out of suckers. People say that.. but it hasn't happened, barely a lull. I think that's a very local-centric opinion. Visit other dense cities around the world. Demand to live in cities increases with time as the city offers more economic opportunity and tourism. And supply is mostly fixed (for a given unit area) due to zoning laws. I'm still considering to be one of their suckers in Toronto.
ninkendo 3y ago
> Getting into a house, waiting for the market to gradually go up over your lifetime and then selling it to retire on that profit But where do you live after you sell your house? By that point it’s likely you’ve paid off your mortgage, so renting means you now have more money going out each month. Or you buy another house and there goes all your profit. You can downsize, I guess? Not everyone wants to do that, or not everyone lives in a house you can downsize from (ie it may already be small.)
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  Renting does mean more money going out, but with a good enough house that doesn't matter - once it is sold it's such a large sum that they can live the rest of their life in comfort.

fknorangesite 3y ago

> Everybody’s talking about money I agree with you, but people are talking about money because in this context it's likely money that would be (hypothetically) motivating the move in the first place.

uoaei 3y ago

Ruthless lifestyle minmax-ers are probably over-represented on this site, it comes with the intensely analytical and neurotic dispositions that are so common among those who are successful using their technical expertise. I share your view: I have a group of close friends and a wider network of fun people that I cherish. It's probably the only thing keeping me from exercising my dual citizenship and moving to Europe to have a chance at a decent life away from such obscene rat-race-driven market dynamics.

fundad 3y ago
What do these friends do for you that you won’t move to Europe.
- uoaei 3y ago
  That's a good question. I can try to answer in the space this input box provides but probably won't capture all of it. In German, there is a word, gemütlichkeit, with no precise English translation but which can be approximated as "the coziness and lack of anxiousness you feel among people you love and trust". There is simply no way to achieve that as a social animal except in developing deep friendships. In particular, I think there is immense value in knowing and being known, concisely, "intimacy". Not having to hide any part of yourself, and being every bit of you that you can be, can be hard in settings where you don't have a persistent support network of close friends who are willing and able to accept you as you are (feelings which you would reciprocate, because you love those people). Feeling accepted by your community is the only antidote to loneliness. Building a network like that takes a lot of time and a certain amount of effort and good fortune. I would be dreading that effort necessary to build new connections from scratch to feel welcome in the communities I wish to be a part of. Keeping up online really doesn't achieve that kind of intimacy unless you're a certain kind of person who can easily bounce between many different social settings/relationships and can get by with a certain shallowness in the "how've you been lately" arena. And flying back and forth all the time goes against my ethics with respect to carbon emissions, not to mention the expense and routine hassle of it all.
  - 3y ago

thefourthchime 3y ago

I feel the same way, I live in Austin. Where do you live?

mock-possum 3y ago
Portland. Some things have gotten worse, some things have gotten better - much like myself. But it’s still here, and so am I. I haven’t found any other place I’d rather be.

mariojv 3y ago

I agree with you in that money's not enough to draw me away from where I live, but you can love where you live and recognize that you need flexibility. I think, all things equal, setting down roots is a great thing, but it can be hard for some. My husband and I live in Texas as a gay married couple and have "exit criteria" where we'd leave if marriage were threatened, which is in the official platform of the party that controls every branch of government here. My extended family in different generations have left 2 different countries during various stages of dictatorship and unrest, so they are also light-footed despite loving where they currently live. The higher paycheck, properly managed, can often buy you the freedom to exit a perilous situation for you and your loved ones. I can understand why some people prefer the high pay over a particular living situation, even if it's not for me. I'm choosing to set up roots where I am and be optimistic about the future, but I'm lucky enough to have an actionable exit plan for my family should the need arise.