4 ms·

Typically the direct reporting relationship is about managing someone’s career and not necessarily their work. The leadership described here is more about the w

by rokob 3y ago

Typically the direct reporting relationship is about managing someone’s career and not necessarily their work. The leadership described here is more about the work to be done rather than the person’s fulfillment and suitability with that work. This separation is more pronounced with large (1000+) engineering organizations. Often people don’t experience this difference because it doesn’t exist at the smaller scales. Engineering management is more on the management of people and engineer leadership is more on the management of products/projects/systems.

deprecative 3y ago
When you say "about managing someone's career" I can't help but feel you actually mean "someone's job". No manager is paid to care about an employee's career that I have ever seen or heard of.
- joshuamorton 3y ago
  Ehh, I am employed at a company where, despite things being very tense at the moment, I've felt very comfortable expressing to my manager my intent to transfer out of the team I'm currently on and into a different position, as I'm not happy with things as they are. My manager, skip, and director have all been extremely supportive of this throughout the process, despite it taking a somewhat lengthy period of time and putting me (a senior-almost staff eng on the team) in a position where it's very difficult for me to commit to a significant ownership of big strategic things (which is my job) since I might transfer out at any moment. Similarly, a few years back, I expressed intent to transfer away from my team to my manager. He basically said "stick around an extra quarter since you're on the cusp of promotion and it'll be easier this way" (and he was correct, my promotion would have been delayed if I transferred first), and I did and got promoted, and ended up staying longer, for various reasons. Additionally, my managers have all been receptive to my goals in terms of career growth: do I want to lean into management (no!) or into deep technical expertise? Do I want to go for additional promotions, or am I happy to stay in the role I'm in and continue doing the same kind of work? All of this, to me, reads more like career management than job management.
  - deprecative 3y ago
    A different position at the same company? That's a job.
- ska 3y ago
  > No manager is paid to care about an employee's career that I have ever seen or heard of. This is an incredibly common part of the role(s), so my guess is that you have been unlucky in this. For what it's worth, all the strong managers I've ever know or worked with pay attention this this, and vast majority of companies (again in my experience) made it an explicit part of their role. I'd go so far as to say as a people manager (as opposed to a project manager, say) you cannot do a great job without considering things like career progression, because if you don't, you don't understand your team well enough to be really effective.
  - deprecative 3y ago
    > This is an incredibly common part of the role(s), so my guess is that you have been unlucky in this. I could be very unlucky, sure, but I've worked at my fair share of places and it's always been the same. Management is there to keep the cats herded and HR is there to make sure nobody fucks with the money. All that matters is that I do my job and that the employer can use the manager to push more work on me under the guise of setting myself up for a promotion or raise that will never, ever come - it never has. > all the strong managers I've ever know or worked with pay attention this this, and vast majority of companies (again in my experience) made it an explicit part of their role. All enhancing an employee's career does is ensure that they have leverage to negotiate higher salaries or leaving the company. No company wants this. > I'd go so far as to say as a people manager (as opposed to a project manager, say) you cannot do a great job without considering things like career progression, because if you don't, you don't understand your team well enough to be really effective. Sure, you know where strengths and weaknesses are but that doesn't mean you devote company resources to making the employee better suited for leaving the company. You can do things like growth but you're going to come around and put penalties and fees to prevent the employee from leaving voluntarily. I have never seen any manager or business treat an employee's career as anything but an inconvenience at best nor have I heard of any of my coworkers or friends or family having experienced anything like this. I can only assume that it doesn't exist or that it is so rare that it may as well not exist.
    - ska 3y ago

by rokob 3y ago

deprecative 3y ago

When you say "about managing someone's career" I can't help but feel you actually mean "someone's job". No manager is paid to care about an employee's career that I have ever seen or heard of.

joshuamorton 3y ago
Ehh, I am employed at a company where, despite things being very tense at the moment, I've felt very comfortable expressing to my manager my intent to transfer out of the team I'm currently on and into a different position, as I'm not happy with things as they are. My manager, skip, and director have all been extremely supportive of this throughout the process, despite it taking a somewhat lengthy period of time and putting me (a senior-almost staff eng on the team) in a position where it's very difficult for me to commit to a significant ownership of big strategic things (which is my job) since I might transfer out at any moment. Similarly, a few years back, I expressed intent to transfer away from my team to my manager. He basically said "stick around an extra quarter since you're on the cusp of promotion and it'll be easier this way" (and he was correct, my promotion would have been delayed if I transferred first), and I did and got promoted, and ended up staying longer, for various reasons. Additionally, my managers have all been receptive to my goals in terms of career growth: do I want to lean into management (no!) or into deep technical expertise? Do I want to go for additional promotions, or am I happy to stay in the role I'm in and continue doing the same kind of work? All of this, to me, reads more like career management than job management.
- deprecative 3y ago
  A different position at the same company? That's a job.
ska 3y ago
> No manager is paid to care about an employee's career that I have ever seen or heard of. This is an incredibly common part of the role(s), so my guess is that you have been unlucky in this. For what it's worth, all the strong managers I've ever know or worked with pay attention this this, and vast majority of companies (again in my experience) made it an explicit part of their role. I'd go so far as to say as a people manager (as opposed to a project manager, say) you cannot do a great job without considering things like career progression, because if you don't, you don't understand your team well enough to be really effective.
- deprecative 3y ago
  > This is an incredibly common part of the role(s), so my guess is that you have been unlucky in this. I could be very unlucky, sure, but I've worked at my fair share of places and it's always been the same. Management is there to keep the cats herded and HR is there to make sure nobody fucks with the money. All that matters is that I do my job and that the employer can use the manager to push more work on me under the guise of setting myself up for a promotion or raise that will never, ever come - it never has. > all the strong managers I've ever know or worked with pay attention this this, and vast majority of companies (again in my experience) made it an explicit part of their role. All enhancing an employee's career does is ensure that they have leverage to negotiate higher salaries or leaving the company. No company wants this. > I'd go so far as to say as a people manager (as opposed to a project manager, say) you cannot do a great job without considering things like career progression, because if you don't, you don't understand your team well enough to be really effective. Sure, you know where strengths and weaknesses are but that doesn't mean you devote company resources to making the employee better suited for leaving the company. You can do things like growth but you're going to come around and put penalties and fees to prevent the employee from leaving voluntarily. I have never seen any manager or business treat an employee's career as anything but an inconvenience at best nor have I heard of any of my coworkers or friends or family having experienced anything like this. I can only assume that it doesn't exist or that it is so rare that it may as well not exist.
  - ska 3y ago