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Private security appearing at your door may be intimidating, but it’s not a raid. Threatening someone with fines or jail time, who took receipt of distributed

Private security appearing at your door may be intimidating, but it’s not a raid. Threatening someone with fines or jail time, who took receipt of distributed but embargoed product, i.e. by no stretch of the imagination illegal to possess, is the sort of thing you might want to look into legal options for, though.

klyrs 3y ago
[flagged]
- ghostpepper 3y ago
  I'm surprised these private security goons don't get guns pointed at them more often. As I understand American law it would be legal to shoot them if they refused to leave your property in some states.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    When I was in my teens, I spent a few months doing door-to-door canvassing. I had guns pointed at me on three separate occasions, just for knocking on the front door.
- ars 3y ago
  Try not to get your news from social media. What you wrote isn't actually true.
  - InitialLastName 3y ago
    Notoriety is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't matter whether the police are _actually_ trigger-happy; as long as they have a reputation for excessive use of violence, a threat to involve them is a perceived threat of violence.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    I get my news from quite a few sources. But you're here on a social media site devoted to sharing news, commenting on a news article. Are you not getting your news from social media right here, right now? What I wrote is entirely true, I didn't say that a threat to call the cops is %100 guarantee to shoot somebody. I said that there's a nonzero probability. SWATting, for example, has killed several people who did nothing wrong. Personal experience: I've had a gun pulled on me a couple times while un-armed and non-threatening. Most amusing one: got pulled over for expired tabs and had a boffer sword (not even remotely realistic looking, mostly red duct tape) in my back seat.
    - slowmovintarget 3y ago
      This is a forum, not social media. There's no network nonsense and algorithm pushes here.
      - klyrs 3y ago
        Agree to disagree; forums are social media. Traditional forum software is purely temporal ranking (latest-comment-first) plus pinned posts. HN uses a ranking algorithm based on engagement, plus ads.
        yamtaddle 3y ago
        I think if you expand it that much, the term's useless. HN lacks a couple things that I'd consider necessary for something to for-sure qualify as "social media": a personalized queue/feed, and some sort of prominent and heavily-used "follow" action. Those are two distinguishing features of the first things I recall the term ever being applied to—as far as I'm aware, the term was coined for that kind of thing. If the "social network" and actions related to it aren't present or aren't central to the experience, I wouldn't call something social media.
        klyrs 3y ago
        Well, if you define it that way, @ars's assumption is a complete miss, as HN is the only social media that I use.
  - yamtaddle 3y ago
    I get my views on the police from the news and from observing them and hearing stories about them from relatives and friends, some of whom have worked with police or in other parts of the justice system. My conclusion, after years and years of all that, is that you should only call them if you'd rather end up beaten and cuffed and facing charges, with a bunch of your shit broken and/or stolen, than let whatever's happening now keep happening. Bringing them into a situation comes with a serious risk of "now you have two problems". For lesser non-emergency stuff, they're not gonna do jack-shit except give you a report for insurance (and charge you money for it), so, do get in touch if you need that, but don't expect anything more from them, because you won't get it. I also treat them as the most dangerous drivers on the road. From what I've seen of their driving, they're up there with a teenager in a sportscar who's simultaneously applying makeup and texting. Except that sometimes when they do something dangerous and stupid, you get a ticket (seen it happen).
wongarsu 3y ago
> raid: noun > 1a: a hostile or predatory incursion > 1b: a surprise attack by a small force https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/raid https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/raid alternatively wiktionary: > raid (plural raids) > (military) A quick hostile or predatory incursion or invasion in a battle. > An attack or invasion for the purpose of making arrests, seizing property, or plundering. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/raid https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/raid Raid seems like the perfect word for this. Though the headline could make it a bit more clear that no police were involved
- jdm2212 3y ago
  How is knocking on someone's door an "incursion" or a "surprise attack"?
  - cfeduke 3y ago
    It's this definition of raid: "quickly and illicitly take something from (a place)" (versus the law enforcement version, where illicit is used instead to describe the goods which are taken by the police).
    - jdm2212 3y ago
      If a PI knocks on your door and says "I represent X, you have in your possession property of theirs, you can turn it over to me now or you will face legal action" and then you turn the thing over... that is not them illicitly taking the thing. That is you and them resolving a dispute out of court. If the PI brings a bunch of big goons with guns and they imply that they'll kill you if you don't turn the thing over, then sure, that's a raid. But also you'd presumably call 911 immediately and file a police report stating that you were robbed.
  - wongarsu 3y ago
    "sending heavy duty lawmen" that "made his wife cry first thing in the morning" talking about "stolen products and jailtime" who then "took everything, even the empty boxes and bags" seems like a surprise attack to me. That the attack depended on surprise and intimidation doesn't invalidate the use of attack or raid imho, that's the preferred outcome of any police raid too (and websters definition of attack is "to set upon or work against forcefully", no mention of physical violence).

klyrs 3y ago

[flagged]

ghostpepper 3y ago
I'm surprised these private security goons don't get guns pointed at them more often. As I understand American law it would be legal to shoot them if they refused to leave your property in some states.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  When I was in my teens, I spent a few months doing door-to-door canvassing. I had guns pointed at me on three separate occasions, just for knocking on the front door.
ars 3y ago
Try not to get your news from social media. What you wrote isn't actually true.
- InitialLastName 3y ago
  Notoriety is in the eye of the beholder. It doesn't matter whether the police are _actually_ trigger-happy; as long as they have a reputation for excessive use of violence, a threat to involve them is a perceived threat of violence.
- klyrs 3y ago
  I get my news from quite a few sources. But you're here on a social media site devoted to sharing news, commenting on a news article. Are you not getting your news from social media right here, right now? What I wrote is entirely true, I didn't say that a threat to call the cops is %100 guarantee to shoot somebody. I said that there's a nonzero probability. SWATting, for example, has killed several people who did nothing wrong. Personal experience: I've had a gun pulled on me a couple times while un-armed and non-threatening. Most amusing one: got pulled over for expired tabs and had a boffer sword (not even remotely realistic looking, mostly red duct tape) in my back seat.
  - slowmovintarget 3y ago
    This is a forum, not social media. There's no network nonsense and algorithm pushes here.
    - klyrs 3y ago
      Agree to disagree; forums are social media. Traditional forum software is purely temporal ranking (latest-comment-first) plus pinned posts. HN uses a ranking algorithm based on engagement, plus ads.
      - yamtaddle 3y ago
        I think if you expand it that much, the term's useless. HN lacks a couple things that I'd consider necessary for something to for-sure qualify as "social media": a personalized queue/feed, and some sort of prominent and heavily-used "follow" action. Those are two distinguishing features of the first things I recall the term ever being applied to—as far as I'm aware, the term was coined for that kind of thing. If the "social network" and actions related to it aren't present or aren't central to the experience, I wouldn't call something social media.
        klyrs 3y ago
        Well, if you define it that way, @ars's assumption is a complete miss, as HN is the only social media that I use.
- yamtaddle 3y ago
  I get my views on the police from the news and from observing them and hearing stories about them from relatives and friends, some of whom have worked with police or in other parts of the justice system. My conclusion, after years and years of all that, is that you should only call them if you'd rather end up beaten and cuffed and facing charges, with a bunch of your shit broken and/or stolen, than let whatever's happening now keep happening. Bringing them into a situation comes with a serious risk of "now you have two problems". For lesser non-emergency stuff, they're not gonna do jack-shit except give you a report for insurance (and charge you money for it), so, do get in touch if you need that, but don't expect anything more from them, because you won't get it. I also treat them as the most dangerous drivers on the road. From what I've seen of their driving, they're up there with a teenager in a sportscar who's simultaneously applying makeup and texting. Except that sometimes when they do something dangerous and stupid, you get a ticket (seen it happen).

wongarsu 3y ago

> raid: noun > 1a: a hostile or predatory incursion > 1b: a surprise attack by a small force https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/raid https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/raid alternatively wiktionary: > raid (plural raids) > (military) A quick hostile or predatory incursion or invasion in a battle. > An attack or invasion for the purpose of making arrests, seizing property, or plundering. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/raid https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/raid Raid seems like the perfect word for this. Though the headline could make it a bit more clear that no police were involved

jdm2212 3y ago
How is knocking on someone's door an "incursion" or a "surprise attack"?
- cfeduke 3y ago
  It's this definition of raid: "quickly and illicitly take something from (a place)" (versus the law enforcement version, where illicit is used instead to describe the goods which are taken by the police).
  - jdm2212 3y ago
    If a PI knocks on your door and says "I represent X, you have in your possession property of theirs, you can turn it over to me now or you will face legal action" and then you turn the thing over... that is not them illicitly taking the thing. That is you and them resolving a dispute out of court. If the PI brings a bunch of big goons with guns and they imply that they'll kill you if you don't turn the thing over, then sure, that's a raid. But also you'd presumably call 911 immediately and file a police report stating that you were robbed.
- wongarsu 3y ago
  "sending heavy duty lawmen" that "made his wife cry first thing in the morning" talking about "stolen products and jailtime" who then "took everything, even the empty boxes and bags" seems like a surprise attack to me. That the attack depended on surprise and intimidation doesn't invalidate the use of attack or raid imho, that's the preferred outcome of any police raid too (and websters definition of attack is "to set upon or work against forcefully", no mention of physical violence).