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Sounds like the buyer should have ASKED for the sheriff.... Private police threatening fines and jail time? Let them say that with law enforcement around for an

Sounds like the buyer should have ASKED for the sheriff.... Private police threatening fines and jail time? Let them say that with law enforcement around for any follow up lawsuit. A purchase was made and the wrong product arrived at his door.. the seller had legitimate reason to have the product, but broke a street date... The customer did not ask for unreleased product... Sounds like the dealer is at fault, but not "stolen property"... Do card dealers not own their inventory before a street date? (And, therefore, sold product that was not his?) (Vs. breach of contract)

PointA2B 3y ago
He could've closed the door in their faces and there would be nothing they could do about it. The company relied on theatrics and false threats to get back a legitimately purchased product.
- CobrastanJorji 3y ago
  Could've, but theatrics are used because it's effective. A surprise morning visit by professional intimidators arguing that you "do what we say or you might spend the next decade in jail" can override a lot of logical reasoning.
  - jjoonathan 3y ago
    That's why it needs to be a crime to impersonate law enforcement. I thought it was already, but here we are.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Is there any indication or evidence anyone impersonated law enforcement?
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - CobrastanJorji 3y ago
        I guess it depends what you mean by "impersonate." Are you asking whether they literally claimed to be a police officer? If so, they almost certainly did not. But they probably showed up with a uniform and a brass badge with words like "sergeant" and "national" and "service" on it next to maybe an eagle and a flag, and they probably talked about how the homeowner was in trouble with the law.
        jjoonathan 3y ago
        Intimidation tactics like that should count as impersonation. If they don't, there's your problem.
        ipaddr 3y ago
        That would still be under impersonated law enforcement
        jstarfish 3y ago
        Detectives wear plainclothes. These types flash a badge, mumble the words "detective" and "agency" in the same sentence, then immediately pivot to babbling about fines and jailtime before you have a chance to question their authority. It's a high-pressure sales tactic masquerading as law enforcement, without crossing the line of impersonation. To those ends, they back down quickly when you poke back with childish questions like "wait, so you're not the police?" (If they say yes, they're in trouble.)
    - gabereiser 3y ago
      It is but we also have PI’s. Usually ex-cops or ex-military members with an intelligence angle. These are intimidating people by design. If you had a squad of paramilitary at your door, and you were the typical magic player, you’d give them the keys if they asked.
      - jjoonathan 3y ago
        "By design?" Let's dig into that. Their CV, or non-LEO uniform, or physical size does not give them license to walk into peoples' houses or to threaten to do so. Everyone knows that. Which means they probably made a threat, and if that threat in any way suggested that they represented law enforcement, it should absolutely be illegal and they should be locked up for impersonation.
        gabereiser 3y ago
        I’m not saying it does, but agencies have typically hired a certain type of physique and mentality that comes from military service.
        jjoonathan 3y ago
        If they used their physique and mentality to suggest that that they were affiliated with law enforcement, that's a problem. If they used their physique and mentality to threaten extrajudicial violence, that's a problem. If they were crystal clear that they didn't represent law enforcement and that they weren't threatening extrajudicial violence, cool. Society has an interest in ensuring that goons can't bluff their way into LEO privileges, so if that's what they did, we have a problem.
      - philsnow 3y ago
        > If you had a squad of paramilitary at your door, and you were the typical magic player, you’d give them the keys if they asked I haven't played MtG since the 90s, so I'm maybe not clued in on what a "typical magic player" is, but I would expect them to be pretty rules-lawyer-y (both on and off the table) and would stand their ground on principle.
  - psychlops 3y ago
    It can, but it's probably a good reminder that people should know their rights. Those who don't will follow along.
  - George83728 3y ago
    Particularly when your SO is becoming upset about it. What's more important, some cards that you hadn't intended to purchase in the first place, or the mental well-being of your wife?
- JohnFen 3y ago
  That's exactly what I would have done. "Tell the cops to come with a warrant, and I'll open the door for them."
  - olyjohn 3y ago
    Yep, would have told those dummy mall cops to fuck right off.
- midjji 3y ago
  Perhaps, but they could have broken it down, assaulted them, then claimed that they were violent. They get away with that kind of crap all the time, because mostly, they do this to criminals, and are friends with the local police. Sometimes they get caught, usually for things like shooting a dog that was chained and far out of reach, or because someone had it on video, but these thugs are the kind of people who got rejected from or fired from the police, so however incompetent, cowardly, and violent the cops are, these thugs are worse.
  - OkayPhysicist 3y ago
    >> but they could have broken it down In the US, that would be an exceedingly bad idea on the part of the Pinkertons. They don't have the same protections law enforcement has: they are treated legally the same as anybody else, which means that in 38 US states they'd be justifying the homeowners use of deadly force.
    - hinkley 3y ago
      I’m shocked the Pinkertons still exist. None of the bigger unions tried to pull strings to get them destroyed for past atrocities against the labor movement?
      - djbusby 3y ago
        Unions are big, but Corporate Money is bigger.
      - dontlaugh 3y ago
        Unions sadly have little power, especially in the US. That may be starting to change, though.
      - midjji 3y ago
        They dont really, they are just an offbrand for securitas who bought up the trademark and brand after they went under.
    - midjji 3y ago
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  *Closed the door and then called the police to report trespassing.
bugglebeetle 3y ago
[flagged]
- torstenvl 3y ago
  American law enforcement would overwhelmingly "side" with the buyer here, by virtue solely of siding with the status quo. The moment they said "contract," Deputy Notmyjob will hold up a hand and say, "Sounds like a civil matter. Mr. Smith has advised you not to trespass on his property. Small claims office is at 1234 Fuckoff Street downtown. We'll be leaving now, and you will too, unless you'd like to take a trip to the station with us for booking."
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
    It depends. If Dealer's lawyers decided they wanted to go after some transgression which may or may not have occurred, that can cause a lot of difficulty for Buyer. Individual officers are pretty likely to point them to small claims but not if a prosecutor is in the picture.
    - torstenvl 3y ago
      I've served as a prosecutor both in a state jurisdiction and within the military justice system. I am immensely skeptical that any competent lawyer would want to spend resources on pursuing charges based on a third party's NDA.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
        Fair enough. Recent disputes around copyright are likely distorting my view on the matter. That feels very much like a corporation going to a prosecutor to tattle on someone. To your point, law enforcement would likely side with the buyer here but the buyer isn't necessarily going to be in a position to understand that (in fact, likely the other way).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
philsnow 3y ago
> Do card dealers not own their inventory before a street date? (And, therefore, sold product that was not his?) (Vs. breach of contract) This is the key question. Almost all the comments in this story are on 1) WotC are jerks for sending Pinks, 2a) the guy shouldn't have given them the product, 2b) if Pinks showed up at your door you'd do it too, ... but if it is indeed the case that dealers don't own pre-release WotC products before the release date, then it goes from open-and-shut "he was within his rights to keep the cards forever" to something more messy.
- Root_Denied 3y ago
  If the dealers don't own pre-release products then it becomes messy for the courts, police, and lawyers. There's no world in which Pinkertons (or anyone acting similarly in a private-enterprise fashion) should have ever been involved regardless of the legal owners of the product.
danesparza 3y ago
Please please PLEASE call 911 the next time this happens. This is an extra-judicial shakedown. There are consequences for idiots who pretend to be police like this. They would be the ones going to jail if this person had called 911.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  Your advice is to add cops to the Pinkertons?
  - kbelder 3y ago
    Yes, it's good advice. They would escort the Pinkertons off your property if you asked.
    - wahnfrieden 3y ago
      I would simply not let the Pinkertons in.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]

PointA2B 3y ago

He could've closed the door in their faces and there would be nothing they could do about it. The company relied on theatrics and false threats to get back a legitimately purchased product.

CobrastanJorji 3y ago
Could've, but theatrics are used because it's effective. A surprise morning visit by professional intimidators arguing that you "do what we say or you might spend the next decade in jail" can override a lot of logical reasoning.
- jjoonathan 3y ago
  That's why it needs to be a crime to impersonate law enforcement. I thought it was already, but here we are.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Is there any indication or evidence anyone impersonated law enforcement?
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - CobrastanJorji 3y ago
      I guess it depends what you mean by "impersonate." Are you asking whether they literally claimed to be a police officer? If so, they almost certainly did not. But they probably showed up with a uniform and a brass badge with words like "sergeant" and "national" and "service" on it next to maybe an eagle and a flag, and they probably talked about how the homeowner was in trouble with the law.
      - jjoonathan 3y ago
        Intimidation tactics like that should count as impersonation. If they don't, there's your problem.
      - ipaddr 3y ago
        That would still be under impersonated law enforcement
      - jstarfish 3y ago
        Detectives wear plainclothes. These types flash a badge, mumble the words "detective" and "agency" in the same sentence, then immediately pivot to babbling about fines and jailtime before you have a chance to question their authority. It's a high-pressure sales tactic masquerading as law enforcement, without crossing the line of impersonation. To those ends, they back down quickly when you poke back with childish questions like "wait, so you're not the police?" (If they say yes, they're in trouble.)
  - gabereiser 3y ago
    It is but we also have PI’s. Usually ex-cops or ex-military members with an intelligence angle. These are intimidating people by design. If you had a squad of paramilitary at your door, and you were the typical magic player, you’d give them the keys if they asked.
    - jjoonathan 3y ago
      "By design?" Let's dig into that. Their CV, or non-LEO uniform, or physical size does not give them license to walk into peoples' houses or to threaten to do so. Everyone knows that. Which means they probably made a threat, and if that threat in any way suggested that they represented law enforcement, it should absolutely be illegal and they should be locked up for impersonation.
      - gabereiser 3y ago
        I’m not saying it does, but agencies have typically hired a certain type of physique and mentality that comes from military service.
        jjoonathan 3y ago
        If they used their physique and mentality to suggest that that they were affiliated with law enforcement, that's a problem. If they used their physique and mentality to threaten extrajudicial violence, that's a problem. If they were crystal clear that they didn't represent law enforcement and that they weren't threatening extrajudicial violence, cool. Society has an interest in ensuring that goons can't bluff their way into LEO privileges, so if that's what they did, we have a problem.
    - philsnow 3y ago
      > If you had a squad of paramilitary at your door, and you were the typical magic player, you’d give them the keys if they asked I haven't played MtG since the 90s, so I'm maybe not clued in on what a "typical magic player" is, but I would expect them to be pretty rules-lawyer-y (both on and off the table) and would stand their ground on principle.
- psychlops 3y ago
  It can, but it's probably a good reminder that people should know their rights. Those who don't will follow along.
- George83728 3y ago
  Particularly when your SO is becoming upset about it. What's more important, some cards that you hadn't intended to purchase in the first place, or the mental well-being of your wife?
JohnFen 3y ago
That's exactly what I would have done. "Tell the cops to come with a warrant, and I'll open the door for them."
- olyjohn 3y ago
  Yep, would have told those dummy mall cops to fuck right off.
midjji 3y ago
Perhaps, but they could have broken it down, assaulted them, then claimed that they were violent. They get away with that kind of crap all the time, because mostly, they do this to criminals, and are friends with the local police. Sometimes they get caught, usually for things like shooting a dog that was chained and far out of reach, or because someone had it on video, but these thugs are the kind of people who got rejected from or fired from the police, so however incompetent, cowardly, and violent the cops are, these thugs are worse.
- OkayPhysicist 3y ago
  >> but they could have broken it down In the US, that would be an exceedingly bad idea on the part of the Pinkertons. They don't have the same protections law enforcement has: they are treated legally the same as anybody else, which means that in 38 US states they'd be justifying the homeowners use of deadly force.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    I’m shocked the Pinkertons still exist. None of the bigger unions tried to pull strings to get them destroyed for past atrocities against the labor movement?
    - djbusby 3y ago
      Unions are big, but Corporate Money is bigger.
    - dontlaugh 3y ago
      Unions sadly have little power, especially in the US. That may be starting to change, though.
    - midjji 3y ago
      They dont really, they are just an offbrand for securitas who bought up the trademark and brand after they went under.
  - midjji 3y ago
Workaccount2 3y ago
*Closed the door and then called the police to report trespassing.

bugglebeetle 3y ago

[flagged]

torstenvl 3y ago
American law enforcement would overwhelmingly "side" with the buyer here, by virtue solely of siding with the status quo. The moment they said "contract," Deputy Notmyjob will hold up a hand and say, "Sounds like a civil matter. Mr. Smith has advised you not to trespass on his property. Small claims office is at 1234 Fuckoff Street downtown. We'll be leaving now, and you will too, unless you'd like to take a trip to the station with us for booking."
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
  It depends. If Dealer's lawyers decided they wanted to go after some transgression which may or may not have occurred, that can cause a lot of difficulty for Buyer. Individual officers are pretty likely to point them to small claims but not if a prosecutor is in the picture.
  - torstenvl 3y ago
    I've served as a prosecutor both in a state jurisdiction and within the military justice system. I am immensely skeptical that any competent lawyer would want to spend resources on pursuing charges based on a third party's NDA.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
      Fair enough. Recent disputes around copyright are likely distorting my view on the matter. That feels very much like a corporation going to a prosecutor to tattle on someone. To your point, law enforcement would likely side with the buyer here but the buyer isn't necessarily going to be in a position to understand that (in fact, likely the other way).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

philsnow 3y ago

> Do card dealers not own their inventory before a street date? (And, therefore, sold product that was not his?) (Vs. breach of contract) This is the key question. Almost all the comments in this story are on 1) WotC are jerks for sending Pinks, 2a) the guy shouldn't have given them the product, 2b) if Pinks showed up at your door you'd do it too, ... but if it is indeed the case that dealers don't own pre-release WotC products before the release date, then it goes from open-and-shut "he was within his rights to keep the cards forever" to something more messy.

Root_Denied 3y ago
If the dealers don't own pre-release products then it becomes messy for the courts, police, and lawyers. There's no world in which Pinkertons (or anyone acting similarly in a private-enterprise fashion) should have ever been involved regardless of the legal owners of the product.

danesparza 3y ago

Please please PLEASE call 911 the next time this happens. This is an extra-judicial shakedown. There are consequences for idiots who pretend to be police like this. They would be the ones going to jail if this person had called 911.

wahnfrieden 3y ago
Your advice is to add cops to the Pinkertons?
- kbelder 3y ago
  Yes, it's good advice. They would escort the Pinkertons off your property if you asked.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    I would simply not let the Pinkertons in.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]