5 ms·

So to be safe a songwriter should just quit music, just as Ed Sheeran said he would do if he lost his case… gotcha.

Retric 3y ago
That’s clearly not what I said. To be a safe songwriter, don’t imitate other works. The lines are actually pretty gentle in practice as long as you avoid actively copying from other works.
- williamcotton 3y ago
  Go find a Black Keys song that isn’t playing the same blues rock riffs that guitarists have been imitating for the last 70 years! What about a drum pattern like a four-on-the-floor disco beat? What about entire genres of electronic dance music? What about chord progressions? Should songwriters avoid the I-IV-V? Do you know how many songs are ii-vi-V-I? What about literally any classic country song? Do The Strokes owe the band Television royalties for imitating their driving 8th note, interwoven guitar riffs? Here's a good conversation around the roots of an aphorism typically attributed to Picasso, "good artists copy, great artists steal.": https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/ Are you a songwriter or a musician? If so, how can you make music without imitating any number of factors? Do you make your own instruments? Do you have your own harmonic system with your own scales? I can't think of any creed that is more destined to result in terrible art than "playing it safe"! EDIT: Oh, "don't imitate anyone" is a close second! The one-two punch of playing it safe and not imitating anyone is just, I mean, I can't even...
  - Retric 3y ago
    Look, if you can find several independent examples of something then no you’re not imitating someone specific. But, if out of millions of songs there only one person who did X don’t assuming copying X is fine. The line isn’t anywhere close to the hyperbole you and many other people are bringing up. Don’t copy other peoples work isn’t some unrealistic burden, it’s the basic foundation of copyright.
    - williamcotton 3y ago
      To anyone else who might come across this discussion and you make or want to make art, please don’t take this person’s advice. I am a songwriter and a recording artist. I and every other musician I’ve ever worked with have conversed in the language of our predecessors. We constantly listen to other records while making our own and borrow drum patterns, guitar sounds, chord progressions… just as all of our favorite musicians did before us. If you don’t do this and you go off on some quest for pure originality, you are engaged in pure narcissism and you will make terrible art. Show me your favorite record and I can break down where every single element of every single song came from. I'm going to guess that you have basically no experience making music. Here's just a couple of the records I've made: https://williamcotton.bandcamp.com/album/melencolia-i https://williamcotton.bandcamp.com/album/melencolia-i https://willieandallie.bandcamp.com/album/between-a-rock-and-a-country-place https://willieandallie.bandcamp.com/album/between-a-rock-and...
      - Retric 3y ago
        Again absolute originality isn’t the metric any more than we expect people to write using the English alphabet but not reusing any existing words. However, your actual defense is a lack of serious earnings. If you habitually copy significant portions of your work don’t assume it’s actually legal rather than simply not worth suing over. If you’re concerned about actual credentials my connection to this stuff is through major motion pictures which means serious paranoia around IP. They are actually concerned about being sued and take actual precautions.
        williamcotton 3y ago
        I don’t think you understand anything about writing or recording music. Everyone copies and imitates. This Robin Thicke lawsuit spooked so many working musicians because they all work like that. Pharrell Williams isn’t some hack. He’s a genius hit machine. His “reverse engineering” of the drum track Gaye’s drum track is part and parcel of the creative process. It is absolutely absurd that they were found liable. It certainly gave the Gaye family the gall to sue Ed Sheeran for using the same chord progression… Have a listen to my albums and you can judge for yourself how much copyright infringement I’m guilt of…

That’s clearly not what I said. To be a safe songwriter, don’t imitate other works. The lines are actually pretty gentle in practice as long as you avoid actively copying from other works.

williamcotton 3y ago
Go find a Black Keys song that isn’t playing the same blues rock riffs that guitarists have been imitating for the last 70 years! What about a drum pattern like a four-on-the-floor disco beat? What about entire genres of electronic dance music? What about chord progressions? Should songwriters avoid the I-IV-V? Do you know how many songs are ii-vi-V-I? What about literally any classic country song? Do The Strokes owe the band Television royalties for imitating their driving 8th note, interwoven guitar riffs? Here's a good conversation around the roots of an aphorism typically attributed to Picasso, "good artists copy, great artists steal.": https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/ Are you a songwriter or a musician? If so, how can you make music without imitating any number of factors? Do you make your own instruments? Do you have your own harmonic system with your own scales? I can't think of any creed that is more destined to result in terrible art than "playing it safe"! EDIT: Oh, "don't imitate anyone" is a close second! The one-two punch of playing it safe and not imitating anyone is just, I mean, I can't even...
- Retric 3y ago
  Look, if you can find several independent examples of something then no you’re not imitating someone specific. But, if out of millions of songs there only one person who did X don’t assuming copying X is fine. The line isn’t anywhere close to the hyperbole you and many other people are bringing up. Don’t copy other peoples work isn’t some unrealistic burden, it’s the basic foundation of copyright.
  - williamcotton 3y ago
    To anyone else who might come across this discussion and you make or want to make art, please don’t take this person’s advice. I am a songwriter and a recording artist. I and every other musician I’ve ever worked with have conversed in the language of our predecessors. We constantly listen to other records while making our own and borrow drum patterns, guitar sounds, chord progressions… just as all of our favorite musicians did before us. If you don’t do this and you go off on some quest for pure originality, you are engaged in pure narcissism and you will make terrible art. Show me your favorite record and I can break down where every single element of every single song came from. I'm going to guess that you have basically no experience making music. Here's just a couple of the records I've made: https://williamcotton.bandcamp.com/album/melencolia-i https://williamcotton.bandcamp.com/album/melencolia-i https://willieandallie.bandcamp.com/album/between-a-rock-and-a-country-place https://willieandallie.bandcamp.com/album/between-a-rock-and...
    - Retric 3y ago
      Again absolute originality isn’t the metric any more than we expect people to write using the English alphabet but not reusing any existing words. However, your actual defense is a lack of serious earnings. If you habitually copy significant portions of your work don’t assume it’s actually legal rather than simply not worth suing over. If you’re concerned about actual credentials my connection to this stuff is through major motion pictures which means serious paranoia around IP. They are actually concerned about being sued and take actual precautions.
      - williamcotton 3y ago
        I don’t think you understand anything about writing or recording music. Everyone copies and imitates. This Robin Thicke lawsuit spooked so many working musicians because they all work like that. Pharrell Williams isn’t some hack. He’s a genius hit machine. His “reverse engineering” of the drum track Gaye’s drum track is part and parcel of the creative process. It is absolutely absurd that they were found liable. It certainly gave the Gaye family the gall to sue Ed Sheeran for using the same chord progression… Have a listen to my albums and you can judge for yourself how much copyright infringement I’m guilt of…