4 ms·

On the upside, if the tax-preparation industry is destroyed or severely diminished, it would make it easier to reform/simplify the tax code at a later date shou

by jcadam 3y ago

On the upside, if the tax-preparation industry is destroyed or severely diminished, it would make it easier to reform/simplify the tax code at a later date should a future government be so inclined. On the downside... no way would I use a tax preparation system provided by the IRS. It's bound to be a UX nightmare, like all government software, there's an obvious conflict of interest (the IRS has no reason to help find deductions and/or assist me in minimizing my tax bill), and I'd rather not give them any more visibility than I have to into my personal finances. Update for downvoters: Woah! Sorry for casting aspersions at the Tax Man.

BigCryo 3y ago
Looks like the tax return industry Shills have downvoted you.. corporate Shills are all over the Internet they control everything
pcurve 3y ago
Just curious, why not?
wlesieutre 3y ago
> On the downside... no way would I use a tax preparation system provided by the government. Seems to work for every other developed country
xmodem 3y ago
> no way would I use a tax preparation system provided by the government. As someone who has used government-provided tax preparation systems my entire life, I'm curious what your threat model here is exactly.
- sircastor 3y ago
  In the US we have a history of government-made websites and tools that fail the user. Additionally, our revenue dept has an unforgiving reputation if you fail to complete your tax information properly.
- gathersnow 3y ago
  The IRS will be incentivized to collect as many tax dollars as possible. That could inform decisions that would end up making it harder for taxpayers to save money. The US does transfer payments via the tax code so doing your taxes is in many ways similar to applying for benefits in other countries. But that's fine. That would mean that TurboTax would have to provide value by way of minimizing what you owe to the IRS instead of being the easiest way to navigate a complicated process with legal consequences if you make a mistake.
eh9 3y ago
I would. They already know how much I need to pay them/how much they owe me. It should be as simple as a text message I reply “y/n” to.
- jcadam 3y ago
  > They already know how much I need to pay them/how much they owe me. This is not true in regards to the US Tax code. There's a reason the tax preparation industry is so large in this country.
  - karlshea 3y ago
    A huge percent of filers have one or two W2s and no house, and that statement is true for them. The giant tax prep industry can still be there for everyone else.
  - sithlord 3y ago
    they know for probably 75% of the country, imo what should happen: they send a bill of the expected amount, and you do your taxes on your end (if you so choose) to make sure its correct. If wrong, you submit your taxes, and move on with life. for the vast majority of people, you have a w2 or some other accounts that submit stuff to the IRS, and these same people mostly take standard deductions, its a simple computation. The US likely wont do this, because they potentially miss out on income that honest peopel will report, when it hasn't been reported to them (for example cash tips / gambling winnings under W2G and things like that.
- jcadam 3y ago
  > It should be as simple as a text message I reply “y/n” to I'm curious, what happens in your scenario if you reply 'no'?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - eh9 3y ago
    Revert to existing experience?
NickC25 3y ago
>I'd rather not give them any more visibility than I have to into my personal finances. They already kinda have all the visibility they want. Remember the whole joke about the IRS - "we know exactly how much you owe, but we're not going to tell you that amount because you have to figure it out yourself, and if your number doesn't match ours, you could go to jail for tax fraud". If you use anything but cash for everything, the IRS knows. Credit cards? Employment info such as salary? Rent, mortgages, loans? They know everything already. I'd rather trust them than a private company that has to lobby against tax reform to keep their stock price high.
- consp 3y ago
  Sounds like my tax form last year (non us). Everything filed in, nothing wrong, just check the numbers, change one small number since it couldn't have known and it's all ok. Digitally sign it and off you go.
- jcadam 3y ago
  The ultimate answer here is to make tax preparation services unnecessary for the vast majority of folks by simplifying the tax code. My first one or two tax filings were on a 1040EZ back when I was a single college student working a single part time job and didn't own any investments or real estate :) Didn't need any preparation services for that. But now I'm in my 40s and filing taxes is a nightmare.
- jjeaff 3y ago
  The IRS does not really know much of that at all unless you receive money through a source that files a 1099 or 1099k. They can certainly find out a lot of stuff through an audit. But they don't know that someone wrote you a check for $30k to pay you for your side gig unless the payor files a 1099 for the payment.
lostgame 3y ago
…but…they…already know? You have to fill out values and match them based on the IRS’ existing knowledge? It’s never made sense to have them separate. :/
JTbane 3y ago
>I'd rather not give them any more visibility than I have to into my personal finances. This sort of attitude isn't productive, the IRS is not out to get you and they already know how much you make (unless your income is all cash you made from selling things out of the back of your truck).
DubiousPusher 3y ago
How recently have you used a government website? Most of them are pretty good. They often don't look great but they're usually highly functional. And the ones that do get modernized are actually usually quite good.
- gathersnow 3y ago
  This is what I have been thinking recently. In my recent interactions with the IRS site I was impressed. In particular was the weird photo-identity app that I had to use to generate a PIN.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
vharuck 3y ago
>there's an obvious conflict of interest (the IRS has no reason to help find deductions and/or assist me in minimizing my tax bill) The IRS doesn't receive a cut of the taxes they collect, so I don't see the conflict. They've been known to contact people who overpayed so they could send a check. If the IRS system is found to be negligently ignoring valid deductions, that'll cause a hullabaloo picked up on by politicians. Things should change. If Turbo Tax is found to ignore valid deductions, they'll lose a small portion of users who follow the news and know about equally-priced alternatives. Chances are, they'll keep on trucking just fine. >and I'd rather not give them any more visibility than I have to into my personal finances. What kind of information do you think an online form would collect that wouldn't already be on the tax forms you submit today?

by jcadam 3y ago

BigCryo 3y ago

Looks like the tax return industry Shills have downvoted you.. corporate Shills are all over the Internet they control everything

pcurve 3y ago

Just curious, why not?

wlesieutre 3y ago

> On the downside... no way would I use a tax preparation system provided by the government. Seems to work for every other developed country

xmodem 3y ago

> no way would I use a tax preparation system provided by the government. As someone who has used government-provided tax preparation systems my entire life, I'm curious what your threat model here is exactly.

sircastor 3y ago
In the US we have a history of government-made websites and tools that fail the user. Additionally, our revenue dept has an unforgiving reputation if you fail to complete your tax information properly.
gathersnow 3y ago
The IRS will be incentivized to collect as many tax dollars as possible. That could inform decisions that would end up making it harder for taxpayers to save money. The US does transfer payments via the tax code so doing your taxes is in many ways similar to applying for benefits in other countries. But that's fine. That would mean that TurboTax would have to provide value by way of minimizing what you owe to the IRS instead of being the easiest way to navigate a complicated process with legal consequences if you make a mistake.

eh9 3y ago

I would. They already know how much I need to pay them/how much they owe me. It should be as simple as a text message I reply “y/n” to.

jcadam 3y ago
> They already know how much I need to pay them/how much they owe me. This is not true in regards to the US Tax code. There's a reason the tax preparation industry is so large in this country.
- karlshea 3y ago
  A huge percent of filers have one or two W2s and no house, and that statement is true for them. The giant tax prep industry can still be there for everyone else.
- sithlord 3y ago
  they know for probably 75% of the country, imo what should happen: they send a bill of the expected amount, and you do your taxes on your end (if you so choose) to make sure its correct. If wrong, you submit your taxes, and move on with life. for the vast majority of people, you have a w2 or some other accounts that submit stuff to the IRS, and these same people mostly take standard deductions, its a simple computation. The US likely wont do this, because they potentially miss out on income that honest peopel will report, when it hasn't been reported to them (for example cash tips / gambling winnings under W2G and things like that.
jcadam 3y ago
> It should be as simple as a text message I reply “y/n” to I'm curious, what happens in your scenario if you reply 'no'?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- eh9 3y ago
  Revert to existing experience?

NickC25 3y ago

>I'd rather not give them any more visibility than I have to into my personal finances. They already kinda have all the visibility they want. Remember the whole joke about the IRS - "we know exactly how much you owe, but we're not going to tell you that amount because you have to figure it out yourself, and if your number doesn't match ours, you could go to jail for tax fraud". If you use anything but cash for everything, the IRS knows. Credit cards? Employment info such as salary? Rent, mortgages, loans? They know everything already. I'd rather trust them than a private company that has to lobby against tax reform to keep their stock price high.

consp 3y ago
Sounds like my tax form last year (non us). Everything filed in, nothing wrong, just check the numbers, change one small number since it couldn't have known and it's all ok. Digitally sign it and off you go.
jcadam 3y ago
The ultimate answer here is to make tax preparation services unnecessary for the vast majority of folks by simplifying the tax code. My first one or two tax filings were on a 1040EZ back when I was a single college student working a single part time job and didn't own any investments or real estate :) Didn't need any preparation services for that. But now I'm in my 40s and filing taxes is a nightmare.
jjeaff 3y ago
The IRS does not really know much of that at all unless you receive money through a source that files a 1099 or 1099k. They can certainly find out a lot of stuff through an audit. But they don't know that someone wrote you a check for $30k to pay you for your side gig unless the payor files a 1099 for the payment.

lostgame 3y ago

…but…they…already know? You have to fill out values and match them based on the IRS’ existing knowledge? It’s never made sense to have them separate. :/

JTbane 3y ago

>I'd rather not give them any more visibility than I have to into my personal finances. This sort of attitude isn't productive, the IRS is not out to get you and they already know how much you make (unless your income is all cash you made from selling things out of the back of your truck).

DubiousPusher 3y ago

How recently have you used a government website? Most of them are pretty good. They often don't look great but they're usually highly functional. And the ones that do get modernized are actually usually quite good.

gathersnow 3y ago
This is what I have been thinking recently. In my recent interactions with the IRS site I was impressed. In particular was the weird photo-identity app that I had to use to generate a PIN.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

vharuck 3y ago

>there's an obvious conflict of interest (the IRS has no reason to help find deductions and/or assist me in minimizing my tax bill) The IRS doesn't receive a cut of the taxes they collect, so I don't see the conflict. They've been known to contact people who overpayed so they could send a check. If the IRS system is found to be negligently ignoring valid deductions, that'll cause a hullabaloo picked up on by politicians. Things should change. If Turbo Tax is found to ignore valid deductions, they'll lose a small portion of users who follow the news and know about equally-priced alternatives. Chances are, they'll keep on trucking just fine. >and I'd rather not give them any more visibility than I have to into my personal finances. What kind of information do you think an online form would collect that wouldn't already be on the tax forms you submit today?