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I think Elon said something interesting about OpenAI in an interview he gave yesterday which I didn't perviously understand – as part of their deal with Microso

by kypro 3y ago

I think Elon said something interesting about OpenAI in an interview he gave yesterday which I didn't perviously understand – as part of their deal with Microsoft Microsoft have right to all of OpenAI's model weights. This means at any time Microsoft has the right to take their models and cut off OpenAI's funding. I would seem OpenAI now have very little autonomy as a company. Since any IP they currently have can be taken by Microsoft there's very little incentive for other companies to invest. And since OpenAI isn't profitable they are now 100% dependent on Microsoft to continue operating. I think we may as well consider OpenAI a Microsoft acquisition since this appears to more accurately describe the relationship here. Perhaps Sam Altman was just too stupid to understand this, but I suspect that isn't the case. It seems he probably knew OpenAI would effectively become a Microsoft research project as part of their deal, and therefore we should probably assume that they will operate with for-profit incentives – and with those of Microsoft's more specifically. I guess what I'm saying is that this doesn't surprise me, and I'd expect more of this to come.

andsoitis 3y ago
> as part of their deal with Microsoft Microsoft have right to all of OpenAI's model weights. This means at any time Microsoft has the right to take their models and cut off OpenAI's funding. How does he know this? Is it because the terms of the OpenAI / MSFT deal are public knowledge? Or is he just making it up?
- CameronNemo 3y ago
  He was an early investor. $50m. Maybe that gives him special access to docs.
nocoiner 3y ago
I don’t think Musk is a very reliable narrator in general, and given the history he’s probably particularly unreliable in the context of OpenAI. As far as I know, the terms of their deal with Microsoft aren’t public, but all the reporting I’ve seen has suggested the opposite - that OpenAI basically kept full control over anything resembling the crown jewels. And why wouldn’t they? It was a frothier market when the deal was made, and it’s not like they couldn’t have raised capital from dozens of other sources.
- ChatGTP 3y ago
  Do you think Microsoft would actually take a risk like that? They've invested heavily in Open AI, so I'd be pretty surprised if they don't have access to the IP. Like you said the legal details aren't public, but I can't imagine they don't have access to some of the IP.
  - simiones 3y ago
    Isn't Microsoft sitting on a huge pile of cash? It seems that having a piece of the AI pie if it's truly going to explode as much as everyone seems to be expecting, plus free access to their APIs, would be reason enough.
    - ChatGTP 3y ago
      This would assume they have no strategy and are just hoping Open AI won’t back out of any deal or somehow degrade their product and then they’d be left in the dark. I would find this hard to believe.
  - kypro 3y ago
    And to add to this, what would be the point of keeping the terms of the deal secret if it's just a simple investment on the part of MS? You'd think "Open" AI would want would to be open about these things. And as an initial investor in OpenAI I'd assume that Musk would be connected enough to get details about the deal even if those details haven't been made public.
bjord 3y ago
Was that the same interview in which Elon lied through his teeth and claimed that the Allen, Texas shooter did not hold white supremacist beliefs (despite tons of open source evidence and even the confirmation of local police) and that Bellingcat does psyops?
- mrdatawolf 3y ago
  I can't find any reputable sources that confirm he was a white supremacist. Can you post one of the links you have?
  - krapp 3y ago
    >I can't find any reputable sources that confirm he was a white supremacist. Yep, there's the weasel word, "reputable." There are plenty of sources, you can simply google it. What sources would you consider "reputable?"
  - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
    I believe he is said to have nazi tattoos.
    - CameronNemo 3y ago
      yes ok source?
      - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
        There is a snopes article which goes over the evidence. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/allen-texas-mall-mass-shooting-nazi/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/allen-texas-mall-mass-shoo...
    - Auracle 3y ago
      I don’t understand why that means he’s necessarily a white supremacist. For one, chances are he wasn’t all that smart. For two - it could just be that he was an anti-Semite, and so he latched on to Nazi iconography.
rhacker 3y ago
Models are worthless without reproducible training anyway. What good is a point in time model if you can't update it going forward.
seydor 3y ago
It's almost true that they have no moat, or have a small one. Acquisition is the best option for them and the time window for that is closing as it won't be long until every company can afford to create their own gtp4. The value of those weights is going down fast, there are now hundreds of LLMs of medium size, all it takes is for any company to change the parameter size and retrain.
ShamelessC 3y ago
My understanding is that Microsoft gets exclusive licensing to (just) the "GPT" family of technologies. This is why Sam Altman has been hoping to get away from transformers and attention-based methods. In any case, I'm confident that their researchers could come up with something else if Microsoft truly decided to "take them over". Furthermore, it seems like it's still a mutually beneficial arrangement.
ranguna 3y ago
Sorry to be pedantic, but I'm failing to see how this is related to the OP?

by kypro 3y ago

andsoitis 3y ago

> as part of their deal with Microsoft Microsoft have right to all of OpenAI's model weights. This means at any time Microsoft has the right to take their models and cut off OpenAI's funding. How does he know this? Is it because the terms of the OpenAI / MSFT deal are public knowledge? Or is he just making it up?

CameronNemo 3y ago
He was an early investor. $50m. Maybe that gives him special access to docs.

nocoiner 3y ago

I don’t think Musk is a very reliable narrator in general, and given the history he’s probably particularly unreliable in the context of OpenAI. As far as I know, the terms of their deal with Microsoft aren’t public, but all the reporting I’ve seen has suggested the opposite - that OpenAI basically kept full control over anything resembling the crown jewels. And why wouldn’t they? It was a frothier market when the deal was made, and it’s not like they couldn’t have raised capital from dozens of other sources.

ChatGTP 3y ago
Do you think Microsoft would actually take a risk like that? They've invested heavily in Open AI, so I'd be pretty surprised if they don't have access to the IP. Like you said the legal details aren't public, but I can't imagine they don't have access to some of the IP.
- simiones 3y ago
  Isn't Microsoft sitting on a huge pile of cash? It seems that having a piece of the AI pie if it's truly going to explode as much as everyone seems to be expecting, plus free access to their APIs, would be reason enough.
  - ChatGTP 3y ago
    This would assume they have no strategy and are just hoping Open AI won’t back out of any deal or somehow degrade their product and then they’d be left in the dark. I would find this hard to believe.
- kypro 3y ago
  And to add to this, what would be the point of keeping the terms of the deal secret if it's just a simple investment on the part of MS? You'd think "Open" AI would want would to be open about these things. And as an initial investor in OpenAI I'd assume that Musk would be connected enough to get details about the deal even if those details haven't been made public.

bjord 3y ago

Was that the same interview in which Elon lied through his teeth and claimed that the Allen, Texas shooter did not hold white supremacist beliefs (despite tons of open source evidence and even the confirmation of local police) and that Bellingcat does psyops?

mrdatawolf 3y ago
I can't find any reputable sources that confirm he was a white supremacist. Can you post one of the links you have?
- krapp 3y ago
  >I can't find any reputable sources that confirm he was a white supremacist. Yep, there's the weasel word, "reputable." There are plenty of sources, you can simply google it. What sources would you consider "reputable?"
- amanaplanacanal 3y ago
  I believe he is said to have nazi tattoos.
  - CameronNemo 3y ago
    yes ok source?
    - amanaplanacanal 3y ago
      There is a snopes article which goes over the evidence. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/allen-texas-mall-mass-shooting-nazi/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/allen-texas-mall-mass-shoo...
  - Auracle 3y ago
    I don’t understand why that means he’s necessarily a white supremacist. For one, chances are he wasn’t all that smart. For two - it could just be that he was an anti-Semite, and so he latched on to Nazi iconography.

rhacker 3y ago

Models are worthless without reproducible training anyway. What good is a point in time model if you can't update it going forward.

seydor 3y ago

It's almost true that they have no moat, or have a small one. Acquisition is the best option for them and the time window for that is closing as it won't be long until every company can afford to create their own gtp4. The value of those weights is going down fast, there are now hundreds of LLMs of medium size, all it takes is for any company to change the parameter size and retrain.

ShamelessC 3y ago

My understanding is that Microsoft gets exclusive licensing to (just) the "GPT" family of technologies. This is why Sam Altman has been hoping to get away from transformers and attention-based methods. In any case, I'm confident that their researchers could come up with something else if Microsoft truly decided to "take them over". Furthermore, it seems like it's still a mutually beneficial arrangement.

ranguna 3y ago

Sorry to be pedantic, but I'm failing to see how this is related to the OP?