11 ms·

Django 1.4 Beta 1 Release

146 points by googletron 15y ago

peterfschaadt 15y ago
Nice to see some added security features, including more secure password hashing. Here is a direct link to the changes: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/1.4-beta-1/#what-s-new-in-django-1-4 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/1.4-beta-1/#w...
richardlblair 15y ago
I hope bug #1744 is fixed... Not having a functional group by in the ORM is literally killing me.
- huxley 15y ago
  I think you probably mean Ticket #17144. #1744 was a bug in contrib.comments and was fixed 6 years ago.
- jdunck 15y ago
  And by "literally", you mean "hyperbolically".
  - dominicrodger 15y ago
    Anyone else's imaginations going wild thinking what bizarre combination of circumstances might lead to the lack of a "group by" in an ORM leading to a gradual death, during which one still has sufficient strength to post to HN?
    - pavel_lishin 15y ago
      I'll give this a shot. No group by means that a Mr. Blair's project fails, and he gets fired, and loses his health insurance. Combined with his pre-existing medical conditions, he cannot get another job nor afford treatment, and dies a slow death of, say, bonitis. Literally dead, for lack of a "group by" in an ORM.
- jawn 15y ago
  Ran headfirst into this issue earlier this week. Unfortunately, the issue was not fixed in 1.4 as of Monday. Judging by their published release timeline, 1.4 is set to be released the first week of March, I dont think a fix will make it in to 1.4. :[
zacharytamas 15y ago
Nice to see Django moving forward! I've been developing with Django since 2006 and have been frustrated at seeing the steam and community seem to stagnate in comparison to the Rails community. Granted, I've heard the opinions that the Django community is less vocal because they're busy actually building things--which I could agree--but as a fresh developer I could see how the Rails community would seem more inviting. I've played around with a couple good ideas in my head for promoting the Django userbase but haven't gotten around to it.
- wvanwazer 15y ago
  I'm hoping this will fix some of that: http://www.holovaty.com/writing/back-to-django/ http://www.holovaty.com/writing/back-to-django/
  - zacharytamas 15y ago
    Me too! Adrian and Jacob have both spread their wings beyond Django and now that EveryBlock is doing well it's nice that Adrian can turn some of his attention back to the community. Some clear official direction can go a long way.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
mikezupan 15y ago
the args/kwargs in templates is what I've been waiting for https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/1.4-beta-1/#args-and-kwargs-support-for-template-tag-helper-functions https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/1.4-beta-1/#a...
- slig 15y ago
  If you can't wait till 1.4, you can do that right now with classy-tags[1]. [1] https://github.com/ojii/django-classy-tags https://github.com/ojii/django-classy-tags
teebot 15y ago
Why no python3 version? Django depending on other components which have not been ported to python3 yet and python3 being backward incompatible it takes time to port them all of course. But as python beginner, I want to start by learning python3 which was released on December 3rd, 2008
- ch0wn 15y ago
  An experimental port of Django to Python 3 that passes all regression tests on Python 2.5 to 2.7 as well as Python 3.2 is available here: https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip/django/ https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip/django/
- asto 15y ago
  Learn on python 2.x. You don't want to start with a version that has fewer compatible packages.
  - kibwen 15y ago
    I mostly concur with this sentiment. I jumped straight into Python 3, and the amount of incompatibility was almost frustrating enough to make me drop the language entirely. However, if you're stubborn enough to power through (and not afraid to roll up your sleeves and manually correct any errors you encounter (which is actually quite a good way to learn the nuances of a new language)) your reward is a language that is more forward-thinking and consistent. Sometimes it's worth the frustration (but only sometimes :) ).
- AUmrysh 15y ago
  You want to use Python 2.X for now. There has been a lot of concern about the backwards compatibility between old libraries and the new python. Feel free to use 3.X, but don't expect a lot of the python libs that make it such a great language to hit the ground running in to work.
- reuser 15y ago
  You are right. It isn't your job to learn on old versions of Python just so that Django does not have to release a port yet. Many projects have been waiting on other projects to port, thankfully the progress in library porting has picked up speed and the available library for Python 3 is very usable. And Python 3 actually is a reasonable decision for a beginner. It is more consistent and does a better job of exposing the 'right' way to do many things. Python 2 is reaching the end of its life and has little purpose except to support legacy libraries and apps and ease the transition. It is not the users of Python 3, but people insisting on using Python 2 to the EXCLUSION of Python 3, who are fragmenting Python
Yaggo 15y ago
> Armin has repeatedly talked about how much slower Django's template rendering is than Jinja's, and I want to cut out our inefficiencies to bridge the gap. Why not simply switch to N^HJinja2? (Okay, probably not that simple, but still.)
- irahul 15y ago
  > Why not simply switch to Ninja? It's jinja2, not ninja. If you want, you can use Jinja2 in your projects, but the other plugins you use will most likely be using django templates.
- asto 15y ago
  If you want something faster, why not try Pyramid? It's a modular framework that lets you pick any component you want! http://www.pylonsproject.org/ http://www.pylonsproject.org/
- obtu 15y ago
  Mozilla does it with their Jinjo (template loader applying Django's layout conventions to Jinja templates): http://jingo.readthedocs.org/ http://jingo.readthedocs.org/ Coffin ports some template tags as well: https://github.com/coffin/coffin/ https://github.com/coffin/coffin/ That said, PyPy is 16× times faster rendering Django templates, which probably makes Jinja2's code-generation cleverness moot: http://speed.pypy.org/timeline/?exe=1&base=2%2B35&ben=django&env=tannit&revs=1000 http://speed.pypy.org/timeline/?exe=1&base=2%2B35&be...
- rlander 15y ago
  Better yet, why not deliver first-class support for multiple templating engines, something like ruby's Tilt?
- reuser 15y ago
  The specific reason not to switch to Jinja2 was that Django's templating language was originally intended not to be that powerful, so that you could feel reasonably safe handing it to non-technical "designers" or "writers" rather than fearing that they would generate a great variety of new tracebacks for you to look at. If you have to ask why Django would not switch to (or even make any effort to allow the use of) any externally developed tool in place of its own, you might not have noticed that almost everything in Django is self-developed and that the officially given reason is that they are "perfectionists. with deadlines." The reason why not is the Django project's philosophy
ridruejo 15y ago
For those of you wanting to quickly check it out without interfering with your existing setup, we are working on an installer and VM image for Django 1.4 and will post it shortly on http://bitnami.org/stack/djangostack http://bitnami.org/stack/djangostack
- tga 15y ago
  Or you can use a virtualenv, like you already do for all your python projects.. right?
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
  - ridruejo 15y ago
    These are self-contained packages, include their own pre-configured copies of Apache, MySQL, etc. As far as I understand virtualenv only applies to Python + related packages, not other dependencies. But I agree that for many setups, virtualenv would work fine as well.
- ridruejo 15y ago
  Update: they are already there. Working now on the Amazon Machine Images

146 points by googletron 15y ago

Nice to see some added security features, including more secure password hashing. Here is a direct link to the changes: https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/1.4-beta-1/#what-s-new-in-django-1-4 https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/1.4-beta-1/#w...

richardlblair 15y ago

I hope bug #1744 is fixed... Not having a functional group by in the ORM is literally killing me.

huxley 15y ago
I think you probably mean Ticket #17144. #1744 was a bug in contrib.comments and was fixed 6 years ago.
jdunck 15y ago
And by "literally", you mean "hyperbolically".
- dominicrodger 15y ago
  Anyone else's imaginations going wild thinking what bizarre combination of circumstances might lead to the lack of a "group by" in an ORM leading to a gradual death, during which one still has sufficient strength to post to HN?
  - pavel_lishin 15y ago
    I'll give this a shot. No group by means that a Mr. Blair's project fails, and he gets fired, and loses his health insurance. Combined with his pre-existing medical conditions, he cannot get another job nor afford treatment, and dies a slow death of, say, bonitis. Literally dead, for lack of a "group by" in an ORM.
jawn 15y ago
Ran headfirst into this issue earlier this week. Unfortunately, the issue was not fixed in 1.4 as of Monday. Judging by their published release timeline, 1.4 is set to be released the first week of March, I dont think a fix will make it in to 1.4. :[

zacharytamas 15y ago

Nice to see Django moving forward! I've been developing with Django since 2006 and have been frustrated at seeing the steam and community seem to stagnate in comparison to the Rails community. Granted, I've heard the opinions that the Django community is less vocal because they're busy actually building things--which I could agree--but as a fresh developer I could see how the Rails community would seem more inviting. I've played around with a couple good ideas in my head for promoting the Django userbase but haven't gotten around to it.

wvanwazer 15y ago
I'm hoping this will fix some of that: http://www.holovaty.com/writing/back-to-django/ http://www.holovaty.com/writing/back-to-django/
- zacharytamas 15y ago
  Me too! Adrian and Jacob have both spread their wings beyond Django and now that EveryBlock is doing well it's nice that Adrian can turn some of his attention back to the community. Some clear official direction can go a long way.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

mikezupan 15y ago

the args/kwargs in templates is what I've been waiting for https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/1.4-beta-1/#args-and-kwargs-support-for-template-tag-helper-functions https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/dev/releases/1.4-beta-1/#a...

slig 15y ago
If you can't wait till 1.4, you can do that right now with classy-tags[1]. [1] https://github.com/ojii/django-classy-tags https://github.com/ojii/django-classy-tags

teebot 15y ago

Why no python3 version? Django depending on other components which have not been ported to python3 yet and python3 being backward incompatible it takes time to port them all of course. But as python beginner, I want to start by learning python3 which was released on December 3rd, 2008

ch0wn 15y ago
An experimental port of Django to Python 3 that passes all regression tests on Python 2.5 to 2.7 as well as Python 3.2 is available here: https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip/django/ https://bitbucket.org/vinay.sajip/django/
asto 15y ago
Learn on python 2.x. You don't want to start with a version that has fewer compatible packages.
- kibwen 15y ago
  I mostly concur with this sentiment. I jumped straight into Python 3, and the amount of incompatibility was almost frustrating enough to make me drop the language entirely. However, if you're stubborn enough to power through (and not afraid to roll up your sleeves and manually correct any errors you encounter (which is actually quite a good way to learn the nuances of a new language)) your reward is a language that is more forward-thinking and consistent. Sometimes it's worth the frustration (but only sometimes :) ).
AUmrysh 15y ago
You want to use Python 2.X for now. There has been a lot of concern about the backwards compatibility between old libraries and the new python. Feel free to use 3.X, but don't expect a lot of the python libs that make it such a great language to hit the ground running in to work.
reuser 15y ago
You are right. It isn't your job to learn on old versions of Python just so that Django does not have to release a port yet. Many projects have been waiting on other projects to port, thankfully the progress in library porting has picked up speed and the available library for Python 3 is very usable. And Python 3 actually is a reasonable decision for a beginner. It is more consistent and does a better job of exposing the 'right' way to do many things. Python 2 is reaching the end of its life and has little purpose except to support legacy libraries and apps and ease the transition. It is not the users of Python 3, but people insisting on using Python 2 to the EXCLUSION of Python 3, who are fragmenting Python

Yaggo 15y ago

> Armin has repeatedly talked about how much slower Django's template rendering is than Jinja's, and I want to cut out our inefficiencies to bridge the gap. Why not simply switch to N^HJinja2? (Okay, probably not that simple, but still.)

irahul 15y ago
> Why not simply switch to Ninja? It's jinja2, not ninja. If you want, you can use Jinja2 in your projects, but the other plugins you use will most likely be using django templates.
asto 15y ago
If you want something faster, why not try Pyramid? It's a modular framework that lets you pick any component you want! http://www.pylonsproject.org/ http://www.pylonsproject.org/
obtu 15y ago
Mozilla does it with their Jinjo (template loader applying Django's layout conventions to Jinja templates): http://jingo.readthedocs.org/ http://jingo.readthedocs.org/ Coffin ports some template tags as well: https://github.com/coffin/coffin/ https://github.com/coffin/coffin/ That said, PyPy is 16× times faster rendering Django templates, which probably makes Jinja2's code-generation cleverness moot: http://speed.pypy.org/timeline/?exe=1&base=2%2B35&ben=django&env=tannit&revs=1000 http://speed.pypy.org/timeline/?exe=1&base=2%2B35&be...
rlander 15y ago
Better yet, why not deliver first-class support for multiple templating engines, something like ruby's Tilt?
reuser 15y ago
The specific reason not to switch to Jinja2 was that Django's templating language was originally intended not to be that powerful, so that you could feel reasonably safe handing it to non-technical "designers" or "writers" rather than fearing that they would generate a great variety of new tracebacks for you to look at. If you have to ask why Django would not switch to (or even make any effort to allow the use of) any externally developed tool in place of its own, you might not have noticed that almost everything in Django is self-developed and that the officially given reason is that they are "perfectionists. with deadlines." The reason why not is the Django project's philosophy

ridruejo 15y ago

For those of you wanting to quickly check it out without interfering with your existing setup, we are working on an installer and VM image for Django 1.4 and will post it shortly on http://bitnami.org/stack/djangostack http://bitnami.org/stack/djangostack

tga 15y ago
Or you can use a virtualenv, like you already do for all your python projects.. right?
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- ridruejo 15y ago
  These are self-contained packages, include their own pre-configured copies of Apache, MySQL, etc. As far as I understand virtualenv only applies to Python + related packages, not other dependencies. But I agree that for many setups, virtualenv would work fine as well.
ridruejo 15y ago
Update: they are already there. Working now on the Amazon Machine Images