3 ms·

> 11 million renters in England. That’s poverty with extra steps.

by gumballindie 3y ago

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
In Germany about half the population rents.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  Same issue. Living one pay check away from homelessness is poverty, regardless of how “rich” the government and elites my be.
  - madeofpalk 3y ago
    I agree, and I agree that more people should be able to own their own, but just because you rent it doesn't mean you're one pay check away from missing rent.
- mr90210 3y ago
  Yeah, in some countries it’s even common for people to have a perpetual rent contract at a fixed rent, which only expires when the person who signed dies.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    Those unlimited rental contracts for life with a fixed rents that gets eaten away by inflation are not common anymore for the new tenants. It's mostly old pensioners grandfathered in who still have them. But the current tenants won't have this luxury in their retirement.
- bowsamic 3y ago
  Germany also has a lot more tenant rights, including the "can't unreasonably refuse animals" that you maligned in another comment. Still, it is extremely bad to not be able to buy a house. I am much happier as a renter here in Germany than I was in the UK however. Much simpler law and contract, much less exploitation. However, this is mainly because I am white. Here in Germany, racism is far more extreme, and it is often far more difficult to get an apartment if you don't have a white name.
  - ChuckNorris89 3y ago
    >including the "can't unreasonably refuse animals" That's not true. They can refuse your pets with a reason. > that you mentioned in maligned in another comment How was that "maligned"? > I am much happier as a renter here in Germany than I was in the UK however. You're happy now, but you might not be when you'll retire and earning much less and having to pay market rates on rent. Will your pension cover that? Owning your own home can shield you from old age poverty. >you don't have a white name There's no such thing as a "white name". White people come from so many countries each with completely different sounding names. Funny, how we focus on landlords being against against pets but not focusing on landlords discriminating non whites which is an objectively much worse problem.
    - bowsamic 3y ago
      I think you’re confused. Racism is indeed much worse than not allowing pets. That’s why I brought it up Also, unreasonable is the antonym of “with a reason”
chris12321 3y ago
Land ownership here in the UK has hardly progressed past the feudal system. Have a look into leaseholds if you want to see how bad it is.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  It is horrible. I purposely bought outside london as it was easier to find a freehold. If there’s something wrong with the west then this is it. Not owning anything but compensating with new phones laptops and holidays in poor countries just to feel good is beyond me. It’s not the individuals i am taking issue with but with the system that forces them to live that way.
- arethuza 3y ago
  Worth noting that property law in Scotland is completely different to that in England and Wales - leaseholds aren't really a thing here. Mind you, the last parts of the feudal system were only abolished by the Scottish Parliament in 2000!
- pjc50 3y ago
  > has hardly progressed past the feudal system Well, it literally hasn't; as fellow Scot arethuza points out, Scotland finally abolished the feudal system once the Scottish Parliament was reconstituted and able to do so, but England has not. It did abolish the "feu burdens", but there's a whole load of weird holdovers still in the system. "Chancel repair liability" is a "fun" one.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    It's a downside of never having the hard reset the settler nations and most of Europe had. Means everything has to be pushed through as reform, making it _painfully_ slow.
spacebanana7 3y ago
Not really. A person earning $125k in London in their mid twenties is still probably renting. You might object that few renters earn that much, but even people earning $35k in the UK are still probably renting if they're younger that 35. Whilst that income might be tight against living expenses, it's not poverty.
- gumballindie 3y ago
  125k and not being able to buy is poverty. Buying a new phone or laptop every few years and a feel good holiday in a poor country doesnt compensate for it.
  - spacebanana7 3y ago
    I agree it's an unfortunate position, but poverty is too strong a word. Even after paying rent, bills and saving - such a person would likely have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on holidays, video games or sneakers. Poverty describes people who have to use food banks not people who have $100 brunches at Cedric Grolet.
    - gumballindie 3y ago
      Sneakers and video games get old and turn worthless. You can still be poor owning those and without food stamps. Thats what keeps folks distracted from real issues. Also you dont get to keep “tens of thousands”. After tax thats roughly 5k£. And while you flush money down the loo each month on rents, your landlord gains wealth and controls your life. Took me a while until it finally struck me. If you can please consider building equity. You’ll thank yourself later.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    It's also pretty unusual, at least if the person intends on staying in London for now. From first-hand experience, you can get a starter 1-or-2 bed apartment earning ~£70k or so (in zones 2-3 at that), still quite a lot but way under $120k.
- ImageXav 3y ago

> 11 million renters in England. That’s poverty with extra steps.

ChuckNorris89 3y ago

In Germany about half the population rents.

gumballindie 3y ago
Same issue. Living one pay check away from homelessness is poverty, regardless of how “rich” the government and elites my be.
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  I agree, and I agree that more people should be able to own their own, but just because you rent it doesn't mean you're one pay check away from missing rent.
mr90210 3y ago
Yeah, in some countries it’s even common for people to have a perpetual rent contract at a fixed rent, which only expires when the person who signed dies.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Those unlimited rental contracts for life with a fixed rents that gets eaten away by inflation are not common anymore for the new tenants. It's mostly old pensioners grandfathered in who still have them. But the current tenants won't have this luxury in their retirement.
bowsamic 3y ago
Germany also has a lot more tenant rights, including the "can't unreasonably refuse animals" that you maligned in another comment. Still, it is extremely bad to not be able to buy a house. I am much happier as a renter here in Germany than I was in the UK however. Much simpler law and contract, much less exploitation. However, this is mainly because I am white. Here in Germany, racism is far more extreme, and it is often far more difficult to get an apartment if you don't have a white name.
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  >including the "can't unreasonably refuse animals" That's not true. They can refuse your pets with a reason. > that you mentioned in maligned in another comment How was that "maligned"? > I am much happier as a renter here in Germany than I was in the UK however. You're happy now, but you might not be when you'll retire and earning much less and having to pay market rates on rent. Will your pension cover that? Owning your own home can shield you from old age poverty. >you don't have a white name There's no such thing as a "white name". White people come from so many countries each with completely different sounding names. Funny, how we focus on landlords being against against pets but not focusing on landlords discriminating non whites which is an objectively much worse problem.
  - bowsamic 3y ago
    I think you’re confused. Racism is indeed much worse than not allowing pets. That’s why I brought it up Also, unreasonable is the antonym of “with a reason”

chris12321 3y ago

Land ownership here in the UK has hardly progressed past the feudal system. Have a look into leaseholds if you want to see how bad it is.

gumballindie 3y ago
It is horrible. I purposely bought outside london as it was easier to find a freehold. If there’s something wrong with the west then this is it. Not owning anything but compensating with new phones laptops and holidays in poor countries just to feel good is beyond me. It’s not the individuals i am taking issue with but with the system that forces them to live that way.
arethuza 3y ago
Worth noting that property law in Scotland is completely different to that in England and Wales - leaseholds aren't really a thing here. Mind you, the last parts of the feudal system were only abolished by the Scottish Parliament in 2000!
pjc50 3y ago
> has hardly progressed past the feudal system Well, it literally hasn't; as fellow Scot arethuza points out, Scotland finally abolished the feudal system once the Scottish Parliament was reconstituted and able to do so, but England has not. It did abolish the "feu burdens", but there's a whole load of weird holdovers still in the system. "Chancel repair liability" is a "fun" one.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  It's a downside of never having the hard reset the settler nations and most of Europe had. Means everything has to be pushed through as reform, making it _painfully_ slow.

spacebanana7 3y ago

Not really. A person earning $125k in London in their mid twenties is still probably renting. You might object that few renters earn that much, but even people earning $35k in the UK are still probably renting if they're younger that 35. Whilst that income might be tight against living expenses, it's not poverty.

gumballindie 3y ago
125k and not being able to buy is poverty. Buying a new phone or laptop every few years and a feel good holiday in a poor country doesnt compensate for it.
- spacebanana7 3y ago
  I agree it's an unfortunate position, but poverty is too strong a word. Even after paying rent, bills and saving - such a person would likely have tens of thousands of dollars to spend on holidays, video games or sneakers. Poverty describes people who have to use food banks not people who have $100 brunches at Cedric Grolet.
  - gumballindie 3y ago
    Sneakers and video games get old and turn worthless. You can still be poor owning those and without food stamps. Thats what keeps folks distracted from real issues. Also you dont get to keep “tens of thousands”. After tax thats roughly 5k£. And while you flush money down the loo each month on rents, your landlord gains wealth and controls your life. Took me a while until it finally struck me. If you can please consider building equity. You’ll thank yourself later.
- dukeyukey 3y ago
  It's also pretty unusual, at least if the person intends on staying in London for now. From first-hand experience, you can get a starter 1-or-2 bed apartment earning ~£70k or so (in zones 2-3 at that), still quite a lot but way under $120k.
ImageXav 3y ago