4 ms·

The more removed we get from the code, for example by not writing it any longer, but generating it, the more cruft and bloat we will allow in there and the less

The more removed we get from the code, for example by not writing it any longer, but generating it, the more cruft and bloat we will allow in there and the less devs will care about it. This will negate a lot of performance gain from better machines, just like we have seen with the web.

yetanother-1 3y ago
Yet it will dominate since it's cheaper to produce en mass.
CGamesPlay 3y ago
Strongly disagree. That’s like claiming that instruction set architectures are crusty and bloated, so our software is slow because the processors are dealing with cruft. What will happen is that the automated agents (LLM or otherwise) will also be tasked with simplifying and improving performance. That’s just another part of development that human developers do automatically before they even commit, and the LLM generators haven’t been asked to do yet.
fab13n 3y ago
That's what better IDEs did to Java codebases indeed: they made layered boilerplates and leaky abstractions somewhat navigable, therefore generations of careless contractors have been able to ship ever nastier messes.
omneity 3y ago
To me this looks like a great opportunity window for devs who care about this stuff. In the future we will have opportunities to ship 10-1000x faster code than the baseline competition, just by understanding the tech stack, the codebase and knowing what is not needed, and that will be an immensely competitive advantage pushing the value of such devs through the roof in the markets that value it. If you thought no-code app builders were producing slow stuff, wait until software purely developed by AI starts to hit the shelves.
- zelphirkalt 3y ago
  This sounds awesome as an idea. I however am wary about how many management layers of companies will actually understand this and not chase the newest feature instead. They might tell their developers "make it work" and afterwards not allot any time to "make it clean". Hopefully you are right and a few will distinguish themselves by actually caring about the code.
  - omneity 3y ago
    I am looking at it from a broad market perspective. Say you produce X, cutting on costs by generating most of it through AI, and your competitor just shipped Y that performs significantly faster (because developers are more involved, for example). If consumers show a strong preference for Y then market forces will drive demand up for these devs, and you might want to change product strategy to compete against Y. Of course it remains to be seen what real world effect all of this could have. I'm still bullish on the importance of human-in-the-loop patterns despite future AI progress.

yetanother-1 3y ago

Yet it will dominate since it's cheaper to produce en mass.

CGamesPlay 3y ago

Strongly disagree. That’s like claiming that instruction set architectures are crusty and bloated, so our software is slow because the processors are dealing with cruft. What will happen is that the automated agents (LLM or otherwise) will also be tasked with simplifying and improving performance. That’s just another part of development that human developers do automatically before they even commit, and the LLM generators haven’t been asked to do yet.

fab13n 3y ago

That's what better IDEs did to Java codebases indeed: they made layered boilerplates and leaky abstractions somewhat navigable, therefore generations of careless contractors have been able to ship ever nastier messes.

omneity 3y ago

To me this looks like a great opportunity window for devs who care about this stuff. In the future we will have opportunities to ship 10-1000x faster code than the baseline competition, just by understanding the tech stack, the codebase and knowing what is not needed, and that will be an immensely competitive advantage pushing the value of such devs through the roof in the markets that value it. If you thought no-code app builders were producing slow stuff, wait until software purely developed by AI starts to hit the shelves.

zelphirkalt 3y ago
This sounds awesome as an idea. I however am wary about how many management layers of companies will actually understand this and not chase the newest feature instead. They might tell their developers "make it work" and afterwards not allot any time to "make it clean". Hopefully you are right and a few will distinguish themselves by actually caring about the code.
- omneity 3y ago
  I am looking at it from a broad market perspective. Say you produce X, cutting on costs by generating most of it through AI, and your competitor just shipped Y that performs significantly faster (because developers are more involved, for example). If consumers show a strong preference for Y then market forces will drive demand up for these devs, and you might want to change product strategy to compete against Y. Of course it remains to be seen what real world effect all of this could have. I'm still bullish on the importance of human-in-the-loop patterns despite future AI progress.