4 ms·

Why are chips made by samsung vs tsmc are any different?

borissk 3y ago
Why are cars made by Toyota and Ford any different? A lot of different technical decisions have been made by different people along the way.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Both are producing same chips, maybe slightly different serial number. Perhaps better comparison would be why Chinese Tesla’s are better than American ones.
  - atlasunshrugged 3y ago
    Are Chinese Tesla's better than American ones? Is it just higher quality control because of a newer manufacturing setup there?
  - Sakos 3y ago
    Or why airlines are refusing to take deliveries of Boeing planes from a certain factory but not the others. If it's difficult to maintain consistent quality inside a single company, it's no surprise that differences like this can show up in "identical" CPUs fabricated by different companies.
  - therealcamino 3y ago
    No, Samsung's processes and TSMC's processes are not the same. They were not making the same chip; they each were making chips based on the same input design, that had been targeted to two different processes.
Pomfers 3y ago
Samsung's foundries have struggled for the past few years to achieve their targets, whereas TSMC has continued improving at their projected rates. TSMC's process is now significantly ahead of Samsung's, such that the same designs are better on TSMC. These improvements are along the lines of fewer defects, higher switching speeds, less leakage, etc. The Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 was made on Samsung's fabs. The 8+ Gen 1 is the same design on TSMC. To be clear, this is for Samsung's processor foundries. Their DRAM and flash memory still appear to be industry leaders.
- joecool1029 3y ago
  It's not even a recent thing. Way back when Apple used both TSMC and Samsung foundries for their A9 SoC's, the Samsung ones were measured to perform worse than the TSMC ones. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/samsung-vs-tsmc-comparing-the-battery-life-of-two-apple-a9s/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/samsung-vs-tsmc-comp... It's just the gap has become more noticeable in recent years. (Notably with things like the Snapdragon 888 handwarmer).
  - birdyrooster 3y ago
    To put it in perspective, the latest Tensor G2 is outperformed by the 2019 A13 Bionic in geekbench.
WastingMyTime89 3y ago
Quality of manufacturing. Think about a mechanical assembly manufactured within specifications but where one is at the upper bound of tolerance and things rattle a bit while the other is a perfect fit.
- maxerickson 3y ago
  In most quality systems those parts are equivalent (they meet spec). If you need or want better parts, you tighten the spec. A sibling comment to yours points out that TSMC has better processes. That's probably a better way to state it, they can hit a tighter spec at the same price point.
  - WastingMyTime89 3y ago
    > In most quality systems those parts are equivalent (they meet spec). If you need or want better parts, you tighten the spec. Components being equivalent within spec doesn't mean they have the same performance. It only means they are all acceptable for their intended use. That's why the Apple A9 from TSCM were performing better than the Samsung ones in the same way batches of products made from the same blueprints can have widely different failure rates. These are quality of manufacturing issues and yes it is due to TSCM having better processes than Samsung. That's not a better way to state it. One is the reason of the other.

Why are cars made by Toyota and Ford any different? A lot of different technical decisions have been made by different people along the way.

dzhiurgis 3y ago
Both are producing same chips, maybe slightly different serial number. Perhaps better comparison would be why Chinese Tesla’s are better than American ones.
- atlasunshrugged 3y ago
  Are Chinese Tesla's better than American ones? Is it just higher quality control because of a newer manufacturing setup there?
- Sakos 3y ago
  Or why airlines are refusing to take deliveries of Boeing planes from a certain factory but not the others. If it's difficult to maintain consistent quality inside a single company, it's no surprise that differences like this can show up in "identical" CPUs fabricated by different companies.
- therealcamino 3y ago
  No, Samsung's processes and TSMC's processes are not the same. They were not making the same chip; they each were making chips based on the same input design, that had been targeted to two different processes.

Pomfers 3y ago

Samsung's foundries have struggled for the past few years to achieve their targets, whereas TSMC has continued improving at their projected rates. TSMC's process is now significantly ahead of Samsung's, such that the same designs are better on TSMC. These improvements are along the lines of fewer defects, higher switching speeds, less leakage, etc. The Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 was made on Samsung's fabs. The 8+ Gen 1 is the same design on TSMC. To be clear, this is for Samsung's processor foundries. Their DRAM and flash memory still appear to be industry leaders.

joecool1029 3y ago
It's not even a recent thing. Way back when Apple used both TSMC and Samsung foundries for their A9 SoC's, the Samsung ones were measured to perform worse than the TSMC ones. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/samsung-vs-tsmc-comparing-the-battery-life-of-two-apple-a9s/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/samsung-vs-tsmc-comp... It's just the gap has become more noticeable in recent years. (Notably with things like the Snapdragon 888 handwarmer).
- birdyrooster 3y ago
  To put it in perspective, the latest Tensor G2 is outperformed by the 2019 A13 Bionic in geekbench.

WastingMyTime89 3y ago

Quality of manufacturing. Think about a mechanical assembly manufactured within specifications but where one is at the upper bound of tolerance and things rattle a bit while the other is a perfect fit.

maxerickson 3y ago
In most quality systems those parts are equivalent (they meet spec). If you need or want better parts, you tighten the spec. A sibling comment to yours points out that TSMC has better processes. That's probably a better way to state it, they can hit a tighter spec at the same price point.
- WastingMyTime89 3y ago
  > In most quality systems those parts are equivalent (they meet spec). If you need or want better parts, you tighten the spec. Components being equivalent within spec doesn't mean they have the same performance. It only means they are all acceptable for their intended use. That's why the Apple A9 from TSCM were performing better than the Samsung ones in the same way batches of products made from the same blueprints can have widely different failure rates. These are quality of manufacturing issues and yes it is due to TSCM having better processes than Samsung. That's not a better way to state it. One is the reason of the other.