3 ms·

Of all the gambling establishments, accessible to the public anyway, pachinko has been the most disturbing to me. Pachinko halls are assaults on the senses, cig

by ehnto 3y ago

Of all the gambling establishments, accessible to the public anyway, pachinko has been the most disturbing to me. Pachinko halls are assaults on the senses, cigarrette smoke engulfs you as you enter, while an unintelligible cacophony of noise pierces your brain. You have to yell to be heard, and none of the noise is useful, so loud it somehow distorts your hearing. Should you sit down, there is nothing to see but your machine and thousands of blinking lights around you. Your senses are essentially stripped from you and the only way to achieve joy from that position is to pull the lever or leave. That anyone would bear such an environment to gamble tells you just how much of a grip gambling can take on someone.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Dalewyn 3y ago
You have to take into account that Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations as much as the west does. Things like kaiten sushi (revolving sushi) and advanced vending machines are popular because customers don't have to interact with another human being. A particularly advanced line of vending machines that recorded and recommended drinks to you even garnered unprecendented levels of love from its customers because they felt it was more relatable and comforting than an actual waiter. Pachinko parlors being a space where it's just you and the machine in front of you (and all the noise around you) is thusly a positive factor rather than a negative one. In general, Japanese just don't like dealing with humans if it can be helped. Interacting with machines is by far preferred. Disclaimer: I'm a nisei (second generation) Japanese-American.
- hbarka 3y ago
  > Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations as much as the west does This to me is just an offensive and ignorant comment. Just goes to show you that this Orientalist trope still exists. 2nd gen removed you’re practically foreign. Disclaimer: I’m not Japanese but I’ve been to an obon festival and an onsen, not pachinko parlors.
  - Foffle 3y ago
    > you’re practically foreign ... > Disclaimer: I’m not Japanese I'm curious; are you also arguing that you are less credible than the parent poster?
  - bluepizza 3y ago
    There is something called "Japanese people theory" (日本人論), which is actually still popular in Japan. We are far from its peak, but most people who lived through this wave still believe it. I suspect OP's parents might have been caught in the peak of this wave. It takes Japanese exceptionalism to illogical levels. Everyone caught a glimpse of this during COVID, when television presented a theory that the Japanese language didn't spread the virus.
    - Dalewyn 3y ago
      There isn't anything particularly exceptional about eschewing human interactions and relations, though? I'm just pointing out that pachinko parlors can (and do) appeal to Japanese folks in ways that westerners might not appreciate.
      - bluepizza 3y ago
        Your description of pachinko parlors is quite similar to a lot of casinos, from Macau to Vegas. I'm just pointing out that there is nothing Japanese about enjoying a high charged environment.
        Dalewyn 3y ago
        The casinos I've been to were as much theme parks as they were gambling houses; simply walking around in them taking in the atmosphere was an experience in their own right. Most pachinko parlors by contrast hardly have any room. There are rows of pachinko machines with small stools in front, and there's barely room to walk around. It's just you and the machine in front of you, and all the noise; careful not to bother the guys sitting either side of you. I'd say they are very different from casinos outside of their gambling nature.
- bluepizza 3y ago
  Japanese exceptionalism and 日本人論 strikes again! This is the sort of thing that actually hides a lot of the value in some interesting innovations. Kaitenzushi requires less staff, and is a viable business with clear financial advantages over a full waiter staff. It also happens to be popular every place that there is one, from China to South Africa to Canada.
  - bobthepanda 3y ago
    Most Japanese innovations make more sense when you think about the implications of a rapidly shrinking labor force. One person can service many vending machines, whereas stores need to be one person at least. One interesting thing is that as Japanese rural train services disappear due to becoming unaffordable when the countryside empties out, the bus services meant to replace them also have issues finding bus drivers.
- _nalply 3y ago
  Additionally many people at least sometimes don't feel up to talking with other people to get their needs fulfilled. I, for example, stopped getting my hair cut by a professional, because I discovered myself being anxious that the person understood my wishes about the hair cut style. Sometimes I prefer to cook instead of dining out. And so on. I think the future will be machines where a large language model takes on orders of people. Japan already shows how that might look like.
- screye 3y ago
  > Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations Is this because of how their society has developed over the last 50 or so years, or has it always been a trait of Japanese society. Because if the decay of human-human relations is itself a symptom of a bigger social problem from the recent past, then it might not be fair to consider it a trait of Japanese people generally.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    I think it's a little of everything, if you ask me. Obviously the low birth rate and population drop means there are just straight up less people, especially in the countryside, but also obviously there's still enough people to make Tokyo among the most population-dense metropolitan centers in the world. Japanese society itself strongly eschews individualism in favor of uniformity and conformity, and there are many social etiquettes and mannerisms that further complicate human interactions and relations. Depending on how social and expressive you are, it really can be tiring enough that you might want to avoid extraneous interactions. Japan has also been fond of mechanical constructs since time immemorial. In ye olde days it was karakuri ningyous (mechanized puppets), and in more recent times it has been robots ranging from the cute (Doraemon) to the super (GaoGaiGar, et al.) to the fantastical (Evangelion, et al.) to the "real" (Gundam, et al.) to really advanced vending machines and companion robots (eg: Aibo). Japan simply doesn't share the west's fear of machines (read: Terminator, HAL, et al.). In short, while the west holds human interactions and relations as absolute necessities for a proper society, in Japan they entail a lot of social baggage. A lot of Japanese happily prefer the warm glow of a vending machine to a cashier, as sad as that might sound to many here.

by ehnto 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Dalewyn 3y ago

You have to take into account that Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations as much as the west does. Things like kaiten sushi (revolving sushi) and advanced vending machines are popular because customers don't have to interact with another human being. A particularly advanced line of vending machines that recorded and recommended drinks to you even garnered unprecendented levels of love from its customers because they felt it was more relatable and comforting than an actual waiter. Pachinko parlors being a space where it's just you and the machine in front of you (and all the noise around you) is thusly a positive factor rather than a negative one. In general, Japanese just don't like dealing with humans if it can be helped. Interacting with machines is by far preferred. Disclaimer: I'm a nisei (second generation) Japanese-American.

hbarka 3y ago
> Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations as much as the west does This to me is just an offensive and ignorant comment. Just goes to show you that this Orientalist trope still exists. 2nd gen removed you’re practically foreign. Disclaimer: I’m not Japanese but I’ve been to an obon festival and an onsen, not pachinko parlors.
- Foffle 3y ago
  > you’re practically foreign ... > Disclaimer: I’m not Japanese I'm curious; are you also arguing that you are less credible than the parent poster?
- bluepizza 3y ago
  There is something called "Japanese people theory" (日本人論), which is actually still popular in Japan. We are far from its peak, but most people who lived through this wave still believe it. I suspect OP's parents might have been caught in the peak of this wave. It takes Japanese exceptionalism to illogical levels. Everyone caught a glimpse of this during COVID, when television presented a theory that the Japanese language didn't spread the virus.
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    There isn't anything particularly exceptional about eschewing human interactions and relations, though? I'm just pointing out that pachinko parlors can (and do) appeal to Japanese folks in ways that westerners might not appreciate.
    - bluepizza 3y ago
      Your description of pachinko parlors is quite similar to a lot of casinos, from Macau to Vegas. I'm just pointing out that there is nothing Japanese about enjoying a high charged environment.
      - Dalewyn 3y ago
        The casinos I've been to were as much theme parks as they were gambling houses; simply walking around in them taking in the atmosphere was an experience in their own right. Most pachinko parlors by contrast hardly have any room. There are rows of pachinko machines with small stools in front, and there's barely room to walk around. It's just you and the machine in front of you, and all the noise; careful not to bother the guys sitting either side of you. I'd say they are very different from casinos outside of their gambling nature.
bluepizza 3y ago
Japanese exceptionalism and 日本人論 strikes again! This is the sort of thing that actually hides a lot of the value in some interesting innovations. Kaitenzushi requires less staff, and is a viable business with clear financial advantages over a full waiter staff. It also happens to be popular every place that there is one, from China to South Africa to Canada.
- bobthepanda 3y ago
  Most Japanese innovations make more sense when you think about the implications of a rapidly shrinking labor force. One person can service many vending machines, whereas stores need to be one person at least. One interesting thing is that as Japanese rural train services disappear due to becoming unaffordable when the countryside empties out, the bus services meant to replace them also have issues finding bus drivers.
_nalply 3y ago
Additionally many people at least sometimes don't feel up to talking with other people to get their needs fulfilled. I, for example, stopped getting my hair cut by a professional, because I discovered myself being anxious that the person understood my wishes about the hair cut style. Sometimes I prefer to cook instead of dining out. And so on. I think the future will be machines where a large language model takes on orders of people. Japan already shows how that might look like.
screye 3y ago
> Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations Is this because of how their society has developed over the last 50 or so years, or has it always been a trait of Japanese society. Because if the decay of human-human relations is itself a symptom of a bigger social problem from the recent past, then it might not be fair to consider it a trait of Japanese people generally.
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  I think it's a little of everything, if you ask me. Obviously the low birth rate and population drop means there are just straight up less people, especially in the countryside, but also obviously there's still enough people to make Tokyo among the most population-dense metropolitan centers in the world. Japanese society itself strongly eschews individualism in favor of uniformity and conformity, and there are many social etiquettes and mannerisms that further complicate human interactions and relations. Depending on how social and expressive you are, it really can be tiring enough that you might want to avoid extraneous interactions. Japan has also been fond of mechanical constructs since time immemorial. In ye olde days it was karakuri ningyous (mechanized puppets), and in more recent times it has been robots ranging from the cute (Doraemon) to the super (GaoGaiGar, et al.) to the fantastical (Evangelion, et al.) to the "real" (Gundam, et al.) to really advanced vending machines and companion robots (eg: Aibo). Japan simply doesn't share the west's fear of machines (read: Terminator, HAL, et al.). In short, while the west holds human interactions and relations as absolute necessities for a proper society, in Japan they entail a lot of social baggage. A lot of Japanese happily prefer the warm glow of a vending machine to a cashier, as sad as that might sound to many here.