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I knew pachinko was popular in Japan but wow. And it almost certainly grew during the pandemic. > Pachinko parlors and slot machines, the country’s largest fo

by f5ve 3y ago

I knew pachinko was popular in Japan but wow. And it almost certainly grew during the pandemic. > Pachinko parlors and slot machines, the country’s largest form of gambling, raked in more than ¥23.3 trillion ($203 billion) in 2015 according to Bloomberg. That’s more than the combined earnings of Las Vegas, Singapore and Macau—or about 4% of Japan’s GDP.

resolutebat 3y ago
The gambling component is also effectively illegal, because you can't win money from the games directly. You can, however, win tokens, which a little shop conveniently located right next to the pachinko parlor will buy off you in exchange for cold hard cash. Like everything else in Japan, though, pachinko is also slowly dying off as the population ages, and the long-planned/long-delayed opening of actual casinos will also cause a big hut.
- lmm 3y ago
  > pachinko is also slowly dying off as the population ages Huh? Aren't old people the biggest audience for it?
  - worrycue 3y ago
    Current old people are the audience I guess. When they die off, the new generation of old people might not be so into it.
    - lmm 3y ago
      I see no grounds to assume that though. Bingo has been a notoriously old-people-thing for several generations at this point.
      - lhl 3y ago
        No need to make assumptions, the pachinko market has been continuously shrinking for decades: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1171592/japan-market-size-of-pachinko-and-pachislot-market/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1171592/japan-market-siz...
mortenjorck 3y ago
That’s astounding. For comparison, gambling is 0.2% of GDP in the US (60.4 billion [1] / 25.46 trillion [2]). And I thought we had a gambling problem here. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1332999/gross-gaming-revenue-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1332999/gross-gaming-rev... [2] https://www.statista.com/topics/772/gdp/#topicOverview https://www.statista.com/topics/772/gdp/#topicOverview
- makeitdouble 3y ago
  Funny thing is, officially pachinko is not gambling, people just happen to exchange the gained goods for money at unmarked counters afterwards, wink wink nudge style. I'd argue micropayment games should also fall into that grey area, same as the trading cards markets. Of course many players (pachinko included) don't see it as gambling and more as a very expensive hobby, in that they effectively expect no return on the money.
- kmeisthax 3y ago
  Australia has everyone else beat with something like 80% of the adult population gambling[0]. [0] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6313083.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6313083.stm
- peoplefromibiza 3y ago
  that's only the legal side of it US players gamble $511bn per year with unlicensed operators, report finds https://igamingbusiness.com/legal-compliance/us-players-gamble-511bn-per-year-with-unlicensed-operators-report-finds/ https://igamingbusiness.com/legal-compliance/us-players-gamb... there's also this How widespread is gambling in the U.S.? Approximately 85% of U.S. adults have gambled at least once in their lives; 60% in the past year BTW pachinko is officially not gambling, it shouldn't be compared with the money spent in Casinos. It is more like a lottery where the price is tokens, not money. Most play it as a hobby, just like many people spend a ton of money fishing without ever catching anything.
freetime2 3y ago
It’s actually decreased pretty significantly since 2015. In 2021 the amount spent was 14.6 trillion. But yes, still an enormous amount of money and time spent at pachinko halls. https://www.statista.com/topics/7427/pachinko-in-japan/#topicOverview https://www.statista.com/topics/7427/pachinko-in-japan/#topi...
- blueblimp 3y ago
  I wonder how much of that comes from gacha games filling a similar role.
- majikaja 3y ago
  Probably this is gross amount and not net? People pay in 14.6 trillion and get back 13 trillion or something.
  - freetime2 3y ago
    The source I linked says “net sales”.
    - majikaja 3y ago
      14.6t jpy is about 3% of GDP. There are about 7m pachinko players in Japan - 10% of Japan's working population. Doesn't that mean they are losing 30%~ of their pre-tax income on this? Keep in mind that pachinko players often aren't that particularly wealthy, so more than 30% really.
ehnto 3y ago
Of all the gambling establishments, accessible to the public anyway, pachinko has been the most disturbing to me. Pachinko halls are assaults on the senses, cigarrette smoke engulfs you as you enter, while an unintelligible cacophony of noise pierces your brain. You have to yell to be heard, and none of the noise is useful, so loud it somehow distorts your hearing. Should you sit down, there is nothing to see but your machine and thousands of blinking lights around you. Your senses are essentially stripped from you and the only way to achieve joy from that position is to pull the lever or leave. That anyone would bear such an environment to gamble tells you just how much of a grip gambling can take on someone.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  You have to take into account that Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations as much as the west does. Things like kaiten sushi (revolving sushi) and advanced vending machines are popular because customers don't have to interact with another human being. A particularly advanced line of vending machines that recorded and recommended drinks to you even garnered unprecendented levels of love from its customers because they felt it was more relatable and comforting than an actual waiter. Pachinko parlors being a space where it's just you and the machine in front of you (and all the noise around you) is thusly a positive factor rather than a negative one. In general, Japanese just don't like dealing with humans if it can be helped. Interacting with machines is by far preferred. Disclaimer: I'm a nisei (second generation) Japanese-American.
  - hbarka 3y ago
    > Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations as much as the west does This to me is just an offensive and ignorant comment. Just goes to show you that this Orientalist trope still exists. 2nd gen removed you’re practically foreign. Disclaimer: I’m not Japanese but I’ve been to an obon festival and an onsen, not pachinko parlors.

by f5ve 3y ago

resolutebat 3y ago

The gambling component is also effectively illegal, because you can't win money from the games directly. You can, however, win tokens, which a little shop conveniently located right next to the pachinko parlor will buy off you in exchange for cold hard cash. Like everything else in Japan, though, pachinko is also slowly dying off as the population ages, and the long-planned/long-delayed opening of actual casinos will also cause a big hut.

lmm 3y ago
> pachinko is also slowly dying off as the population ages Huh? Aren't old people the biggest audience for it?
- worrycue 3y ago
  Current old people are the audience I guess. When they die off, the new generation of old people might not be so into it.
  - lmm 3y ago
    I see no grounds to assume that though. Bingo has been a notoriously old-people-thing for several generations at this point.
    - lhl 3y ago
      No need to make assumptions, the pachinko market has been continuously shrinking for decades: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1171592/japan-market-size-of-pachinko-and-pachislot-market/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1171592/japan-market-siz...

mortenjorck 3y ago

That’s astounding. For comparison, gambling is 0.2% of GDP in the US (60.4 billion [1] / 25.46 trillion [2]). And I thought we had a gambling problem here. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1332999/gross-gaming-revenue-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1332999/gross-gaming-rev... [2] https://www.statista.com/topics/772/gdp/#topicOverview https://www.statista.com/topics/772/gdp/#topicOverview

makeitdouble 3y ago
Funny thing is, officially pachinko is not gambling, people just happen to exchange the gained goods for money at unmarked counters afterwards, wink wink nudge style. I'd argue micropayment games should also fall into that grey area, same as the trading cards markets. Of course many players (pachinko included) don't see it as gambling and more as a very expensive hobby, in that they effectively expect no return on the money.
kmeisthax 3y ago
Australia has everyone else beat with something like 80% of the adult population gambling[0]. [0] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6313083.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6313083.stm
peoplefromibiza 3y ago
that's only the legal side of it US players gamble $511bn per year with unlicensed operators, report finds https://igamingbusiness.com/legal-compliance/us-players-gamble-511bn-per-year-with-unlicensed-operators-report-finds/ https://igamingbusiness.com/legal-compliance/us-players-gamb... there's also this How widespread is gambling in the U.S.? Approximately 85% of U.S. adults have gambled at least once in their lives; 60% in the past year BTW pachinko is officially not gambling, it shouldn't be compared with the money spent in Casinos. It is more like a lottery where the price is tokens, not money. Most play it as a hobby, just like many people spend a ton of money fishing without ever catching anything.

freetime2 3y ago

It’s actually decreased pretty significantly since 2015. In 2021 the amount spent was 14.6 trillion. But yes, still an enormous amount of money and time spent at pachinko halls. https://www.statista.com/topics/7427/pachinko-in-japan/#topicOverview https://www.statista.com/topics/7427/pachinko-in-japan/#topi...

blueblimp 3y ago
I wonder how much of that comes from gacha games filling a similar role.
majikaja 3y ago
Probably this is gross amount and not net? People pay in 14.6 trillion and get back 13 trillion or something.
- freetime2 3y ago
  The source I linked says “net sales”.
  - majikaja 3y ago
    14.6t jpy is about 3% of GDP. There are about 7m pachinko players in Japan - 10% of Japan's working population. Doesn't that mean they are losing 30%~ of their pre-tax income on this? Keep in mind that pachinko players often aren't that particularly wealthy, so more than 30% really.

ehnto 3y ago

Of all the gambling establishments, accessible to the public anyway, pachinko has been the most disturbing to me. Pachinko halls are assaults on the senses, cigarrette smoke engulfs you as you enter, while an unintelligible cacophony of noise pierces your brain. You have to yell to be heard, and none of the noise is useful, so loud it somehow distorts your hearing. Should you sit down, there is nothing to see but your machine and thousands of blinking lights around you. Your senses are essentially stripped from you and the only way to achieve joy from that position is to pull the lever or leave. That anyone would bear such an environment to gamble tells you just how much of a grip gambling can take on someone.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Dalewyn 3y ago
You have to take into account that Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations as much as the west does. Things like kaiten sushi (revolving sushi) and advanced vending machines are popular because customers don't have to interact with another human being. A particularly advanced line of vending machines that recorded and recommended drinks to you even garnered unprecendented levels of love from its customers because they felt it was more relatable and comforting than an actual waiter. Pachinko parlors being a space where it's just you and the machine in front of you (and all the noise around you) is thusly a positive factor rather than a negative one. In general, Japanese just don't like dealing with humans if it can be helped. Interacting with machines is by far preferred. Disclaimer: I'm a nisei (second generation) Japanese-American.
- hbarka 3y ago
  > Japanese do not place nearly as much emphasis on human-to-human relations as much as the west does This to me is just an offensive and ignorant comment. Just goes to show you that this Orientalist trope still exists. 2nd gen removed you’re practically foreign. Disclaimer: I’m not Japanese but I’ve been to an obon festival and an onsen, not pachinko parlors.