5 ms·

> I’m a big believer that people need to be more productive when they’re in person Yet compensation will not be proportional. Part of the reason WFH is good is

by proc0 3y ago

> I’m a big believer that people need to be more productive when they’re in person Yet compensation will not be proportional. Part of the reason WFH is good is because workers are getting some options. The evidence is simple, business owners would, and will, prefer robots and AI over people. They want that kind of control. I'm pro capitalism but this is undeniably one of its greatest flaws, which is dehumanizing people in the name of competition and market value.

kelseyfrog 3y ago
Is there a version of capitalism that doesn't suffer from this? It seems like dehumanization is in some ways precisely the mechanism that makes it work.
- proc0 3y ago
  I'm not sure whether prioritizing profit above all else is necessarily part of capitalism. I can imagine a world where businesses have a different top priority. A business can still survive without cancer-like growth that reaches global levels with tens of thousands of employees and lobby groups. Of course, that world would require every business to agree and not pursue profit, otherwise the ones that do will out-compete the rest. It seems like a much deeper problem than capitalism, and one that is being mitigated the most by capitalism if we compare it to the previous economic systems.
  - CrackerNews 3y ago
    Prioritizing profits is a part of capitalism. Capitalism is simply the private ownership of the means of production, but the interests of the capital owner are to use capital to accumulate wealth, which leads to exploitation of labor being a method. This is especially so versus the falling rate of growth as an industry matures. The tendency of capitalism then is to consolidate into an oligarchy of major dominant corporations and conglomerations, which is that aforementioned cancerous growth. Capitalism won out over previous modes because it outcompeted them. Granting laborers some economic power (as opposed to slavery or serfdom) turned out to be an enabler for economic growth. In the example of WFH, markets could end up winning out in the end as new telework industries outcompete the prior office commute industries. This could end up enabling innovation to be untethered and accelerate.
BillyTheMage 3y ago
That's all capitalism is: the theft of workers' profits by shareholders.
- erik_seaberg 3y ago
  They’re taking all the risks for me.
- proc0 3y ago
  I see capitalism as the best solution so far to the greedy nature of humans. It doesn't solve for business owners constantly trying to squeeze the most out of workers like farmers and their livestock. There are definitely better solutions to be discovered, probably not communism because even though it sounds good, the greed nature of humans can exploit communism even more than capitalism. It's a tough problem.
  - CrackerNews 3y ago
    On the flip side, capitalism can enable greed to a global level never before seen, and communism (as in communist states as opposed to "True Communism") can enforce a level of fairness given the limited resources. The former can dominate entire countries and create banana republics, and while the latter can inflict misery, it is not on the level of complete failed states where senseless violence roam the streets.
    - proc0 3y ago
      It seems that capitalism coincided with empires globalizing the world via colonization, and as such inherited imperialist "features" that are not necessarily tied to the idea of free markets and capital. Those companies that did horrible things for profit, are allowed to do so because of capitalism, but it's not an inherent feature of capitalism, in my limited knowledge. To that extent it's like we're trying to find an economic model that will solve for human greed in every possible scenario. Maybe it just needs to be complemented with other societal values or moral structures.

by proc0 3y ago

kelseyfrog 3y ago

Is there a version of capitalism that doesn't suffer from this? It seems like dehumanization is in some ways precisely the mechanism that makes it work.

proc0 3y ago
I'm not sure whether prioritizing profit above all else is necessarily part of capitalism. I can imagine a world where businesses have a different top priority. A business can still survive without cancer-like growth that reaches global levels with tens of thousands of employees and lobby groups. Of course, that world would require every business to agree and not pursue profit, otherwise the ones that do will out-compete the rest. It seems like a much deeper problem than capitalism, and one that is being mitigated the most by capitalism if we compare it to the previous economic systems.
- CrackerNews 3y ago
  Prioritizing profits is a part of capitalism. Capitalism is simply the private ownership of the means of production, but the interests of the capital owner are to use capital to accumulate wealth, which leads to exploitation of labor being a method. This is especially so versus the falling rate of growth as an industry matures. The tendency of capitalism then is to consolidate into an oligarchy of major dominant corporations and conglomerations, which is that aforementioned cancerous growth. Capitalism won out over previous modes because it outcompeted them. Granting laborers some economic power (as opposed to slavery or serfdom) turned out to be an enabler for economic growth. In the example of WFH, markets could end up winning out in the end as new telework industries outcompete the prior office commute industries. This could end up enabling innovation to be untethered and accelerate.

BillyTheMage 3y ago

That's all capitalism is: the theft of workers' profits by shareholders.

erik_seaberg 3y ago
They’re taking all the risks for me.
proc0 3y ago
I see capitalism as the best solution so far to the greedy nature of humans. It doesn't solve for business owners constantly trying to squeeze the most out of workers like farmers and their livestock. There are definitely better solutions to be discovered, probably not communism because even though it sounds good, the greed nature of humans can exploit communism even more than capitalism. It's a tough problem.
- CrackerNews 3y ago
  On the flip side, capitalism can enable greed to a global level never before seen, and communism (as in communist states as opposed to "True Communism") can enforce a level of fairness given the limited resources. The former can dominate entire countries and create banana republics, and while the latter can inflict misery, it is not on the level of complete failed states where senseless violence roam the streets.
  - proc0 3y ago
    It seems that capitalism coincided with empires globalizing the world via colonization, and as such inherited imperialist "features" that are not necessarily tied to the idea of free markets and capital. Those companies that did horrible things for profit, are allowed to do so because of capitalism, but it's not an inherent feature of capitalism, in my limited knowledge. To that extent it's like we're trying to find an economic model that will solve for human greed in every possible scenario. Maybe it just needs to be complemented with other societal values or moral structures.