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There are kinks which deserved to be shamed, and these are the kinks in which grooming and ratcheted boundary violations exist. This includes relationships whic

There are kinks which deserved to be shamed, and these are the kinks in which grooming and ratcheted boundary violations exist. This includes relationships which weren't always seen as kinks, but have become so as society has evolved. Age is a parameter which can sometimes be shamed because of possible differentials in experience. It can't be shamed all of the time, but there are valid reasons to use it as a first-line gate, even after age-of-consent laws are no longer in the picture. Part of the pressure to move the world into a total '“don’t kink shame consenting adults” phase' is from people with abusive kinks who don't want to be checked on their abuse. Screw them. Every kink deserves nested evaluation as to whether it should be totally shamed, generally shamed (with exceptions), generally not-shamed (with exceptions), or seen as okay to do in private (but not public), or seen as okay in general.

sph 3y ago
> There are kinks which deserved to be shamed, and these are the kinks in which grooming and ratcheted boundary violations exist. Oh yeah, and who decides? Stop acting as if there is an absolute universal moral. There's none. Everything apart "don't hurt people and living beings" are arbitrary rules we have agreed upon over time. And in any case, even that is just as arbitrary, but pretty much everyone is in favour of. Sodomy between consenting adults doesn't hurt anyone, nor a weirdly horny 16 yo going at it with an older adult because they wanted to. Prepubescent paedophilia on the other hand is entirely traumatic because one is simply not sexually tuned at that age, so they cannot consent. I don't know why people make a mountain out of a molehill. Are all involved parties consenting? Are they of sound mind and body? Then do whatever the hell you want. > Every kink deserves nested evaluation as to whether it should be totally shamed Fuck no, keep your morality ideas for yourself. Who are you to judge?
- prepend 3y ago
  > Oh yeah, and who decides? I think there’s a game theory where whatever people think others think is bad are shameworthy. It doesn’t seem principle based and instead works backwards from disliking someone and the working backwards to find something wrong. That seems like a bad way to set moral standards and social norms. And sets us up for a constant second guessing of what to do or say, etc etc. I think having a clear rule set (is legal? Is consenting? Then none of my business) is more productive. The last thing I want is people believing they need to perform some “nested evaluation” to determine if my missionary sex kink is appropriate or not. An example that I encountered recently is that a friend was asking me to comment on other friends’ open marriage and tried a “would I permit that” reasoning to determine if it was appropriate. Asking simple questions like “is it legal” and “are all parties willing” is possible. But trying to have every person apply their own preference onto other people is a nightmare.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    An issue with "don't kink shame" is when that is used to castigate people who don't want kinks happening around them. This can be as minimal as PDA, to stuff as egregious as Key & Peele's skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c If you're discussing about furry sex or 50 shades of Grey, maybe keep it to the privacy of an adult furry community or a book club.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  > > Every kink deserves nested evaluation as to whether it should be totally shamed > Fuck no, keep your morality ideas for yourself. Who are you to judge? You're judging that no one should judge. I'm not a Libertine. I have a right to be in this world too. I don't have to just go by your standards. I'll live and let live as long as you give me space for my preferences, but that is never where it ends. Because libertines don't like me asserting my boundaries when they are in my space. If I don't know about it, I can't kink shame it. If I do know about it, then you pushed it into my space.
prepend 3y ago
All right church lady. I’m not sure how you choose which kinks are shameworthy. I’ll stick to what’s illegal, thanks- pedo, necro, beast, etc. And then a simple heuristic like if it’s consenting adults and legal then that’s enough for me.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  Sure man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Sexual_misconduct_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Sexual_misconduct_al... Totally legal: > https://www.statista.com/chart/11848/americas-youngest-child-brides-grooms/ https://www.statista.com/chart/11848/americas-youngest-child... As our infographic shows, the youngest to marry since 2000 were three ten year olds. According to Frontline, the three girls married men aged 24, 25 and 31 in Tennessee in 2001. https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/why-does-the-united-states-still-let-12-year-old-girls-get-married/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/... > We learned that in 38 states, more than 167,000 children — almost all of them girls, some as young 12 — were married during that period, mostly to men 18 or older. > Minors such as Siddiqui can easily be forced into marriage or forced to stay in a marriage. Adults being pressured in this way have options, including access to domestic-violence shelters. But a child who leaves home is considered a runaway; the police try to return her to her family and could even charge our organization criminally if we were to get involved. Most domestic-violence shelters do not accept minors, and youth shelters typically notify parents that their children are there. Child-protective services are usually not a solution, either: Caseworkers point out that preventing legal marriages is not in their mandate. > Women who marry at 18 or younger face a 23 percent higher risk of heart attack, diabetes, cancer and stroke than do women who marry between ages 19 and 25, partly because early marriage can lead to added stress and forfeited education. Women who wed before 18 also are at increased risk of developing various psychiatric disorders, even when controlling for socio-demographic factors. > Sherry Johnson of Florida, who said she was raped repeatedly as a child and was pregnant by 11, at which time her mother forced her to marry her 20-year-old rapist under Florida’s pregnancy exception in the 1970s. Such a church lady of me.

sph 3y ago

> There are kinks which deserved to be shamed, and these are the kinks in which grooming and ratcheted boundary violations exist. Oh yeah, and who decides? Stop acting as if there is an absolute universal moral. There's none. Everything apart "don't hurt people and living beings" are arbitrary rules we have agreed upon over time. And in any case, even that is just as arbitrary, but pretty much everyone is in favour of. Sodomy between consenting adults doesn't hurt anyone, nor a weirdly horny 16 yo going at it with an older adult because they wanted to. Prepubescent paedophilia on the other hand is entirely traumatic because one is simply not sexually tuned at that age, so they cannot consent. I don't know why people make a mountain out of a molehill. Are all involved parties consenting? Are they of sound mind and body? Then do whatever the hell you want. > Every kink deserves nested evaluation as to whether it should be totally shamed Fuck no, keep your morality ideas for yourself. Who are you to judge?

prepend 3y ago
> Oh yeah, and who decides? I think there’s a game theory where whatever people think others think is bad are shameworthy. It doesn’t seem principle based and instead works backwards from disliking someone and the working backwards to find something wrong. That seems like a bad way to set moral standards and social norms. And sets us up for a constant second guessing of what to do or say, etc etc. I think having a clear rule set (is legal? Is consenting? Then none of my business) is more productive. The last thing I want is people believing they need to perform some “nested evaluation” to determine if my missionary sex kink is appropriate or not. An example that I encountered recently is that a friend was asking me to comment on other friends’ open marriage and tried a “would I permit that” reasoning to determine if it was appropriate. Asking simple questions like “is it legal” and “are all parties willing” is possible. But trying to have every person apply their own preference onto other people is a nightmare.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  An issue with "don't kink shame" is when that is used to castigate people who don't want kinks happening around them. This can be as minimal as PDA, to stuff as egregious as Key & Peele's skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c If you're discussing about furry sex or 50 shades of Grey, maybe keep it to the privacy of an adult furry community or a book club.
anonymouskimmer 3y ago
> > Every kink deserves nested evaluation as to whether it should be totally shamed > Fuck no, keep your morality ideas for yourself. Who are you to judge? You're judging that no one should judge. I'm not a Libertine. I have a right to be in this world too. I don't have to just go by your standards. I'll live and let live as long as you give me space for my preferences, but that is never where it ends. Because libertines don't like me asserting my boundaries when they are in my space. If I don't know about it, I can't kink shame it. If I do know about it, then you pushed it into my space.

prepend 3y ago

All right church lady. I’m not sure how you choose which kinks are shameworthy. I’ll stick to what’s illegal, thanks- pedo, necro, beast, etc. And then a simple heuristic like if it’s consenting adults and legal then that’s enough for me.

anonymouskimmer 3y ago
Sure man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Sexual_misconduct_allegations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore#Sexual_misconduct_al... Totally legal: > https://www.statista.com/chart/11848/americas-youngest-child-brides-grooms/ https://www.statista.com/chart/11848/americas-youngest-child... As our infographic shows, the youngest to marry since 2000 were three ten year olds. According to Frontline, the three girls married men aged 24, 25 and 31 in Tennessee in 2001. https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/why-does-the-united-states-still-let-12-year-old-girls-get-married/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/02/10/... > We learned that in 38 states, more than 167,000 children — almost all of them girls, some as young 12 — were married during that period, mostly to men 18 or older. > Minors such as Siddiqui can easily be forced into marriage or forced to stay in a marriage. Adults being pressured in this way have options, including access to domestic-violence shelters. But a child who leaves home is considered a runaway; the police try to return her to her family and could even charge our organization criminally if we were to get involved. Most domestic-violence shelters do not accept minors, and youth shelters typically notify parents that their children are there. Child-protective services are usually not a solution, either: Caseworkers point out that preventing legal marriages is not in their mandate. > Women who marry at 18 or younger face a 23 percent higher risk of heart attack, diabetes, cancer and stroke than do women who marry between ages 19 and 25, partly because early marriage can lead to added stress and forfeited education. Women who wed before 18 also are at increased risk of developing various psychiatric disorders, even when controlling for socio-demographic factors. > Sherry Johnson of Florida, who said she was raped repeatedly as a child and was pregnant by 11, at which time her mother forced her to marry her 20-year-old rapist under Florida’s pregnancy exception in the 1970s. Such a church lady of me.