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Question, I played a pinball video game a while back (Demon Tilt). It was largely just a pinball machine. But it also let you nudge the ball and this was pretty

Question, I played a pinball video game a while back (Demon Tilt). It was largely just a pinball machine. But it also let you nudge the ball and this was pretty critical to doing well. Are physical machines supposed to have this tilting mechanic? Because I’m vaguely aware that TILT is a thing you can be punished for. And I’m wondering how it is possible to avoid unlucky deaths otherwise.

deleted 3y ago
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tanseydavid 3y ago
Nudging (without triggering a TILT) is generally considered a legitimate part of the game play. https://digitalpinballfans.com/threads/was-nudging-always-considered-part-of-the-game.7584/ https://digitalpinballfans.com/threads/was-nudging-always-co...
vikingerik 3y ago
Real pinball absolutely allows nudging. There is a sensor in the machine, a pendulum hanging within a ring so that it makes contact if you move the machine too far. The game software will assess you with a warning at first, and then if you go too far the penalty is to shut down and lose the ball in play. Nudging just enough so you don't trip the sensor, or deliberately going too far to incur the warning when you need to save a ball, is absolutely a component of skilled play.
- fauxpause_ 3y ago
  Dumb question but how do you do this? Are you gripping the machine with your hands and literally lifting it from different sides?
  - vikingerik 3y ago
    Not lifting, but you can push the machine horizontally from your normal position with your hands on the buttons. With your hands at the front corners, you can push north-south or east-west or on any such axis. The machines are designed to allow this; the legs and feet have some flex. What's different from people's experience of virtual pinball is that you're moving the machine underneath the ball, not the ball itself. The computer games like Space Cadet let you deflect the ball in open space anywhere on the playfield... that's not really how it works, Microsoft got that wrong, what you're really doing is pushing objects on the playfield either into or away from the ball.
    - fauxpause_ 3y ago
      Ahhh the legs comment is very interesting. That makes sense
    - relwin 3y ago
      If you're playing a pin that's sitting in "cups" (prevents it from sliding) a non-tilting shove on the side will in fact lift the corner slightly -- I measured with a 3-axis accelerometer back in the day. Rather surprising...
  - mcnnowak 3y ago
    You can slap the buttons hard to get the table to wobble a bit, you can tap the cabinet with your wrists, you can grab the table tightly and move a leg or a hip in the opposite direction while keeping your body rigid, you can even slide the whole table if you're feeling desperate and want to burn a warning. It's a super physical game if you're taking risky shots and having to recover from bad situations constantly, and the pros make it look like they're barely nudging at all by taking safe shots and making minor corrections with nudges.
  - syntheweave 3y ago
    Imagine you're gripping the handlebars of a bike - you can push it a little bit laterally, but much more by leaning into a turn. Gripping the side of the machine to nudge works in the same way - you can slap it a little bit to get the ball going off its designed trajectory, but you have to use your legs and core to get it to move a lot, and if the game is set tight that will usually set off the tilt warnings.
  - beznet 3y ago
    Abe Flips has amazing tutorials showing you different nudging techniques: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRcCbNNTeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRcCbNNTeU
pessimizer 3y ago
> Are physical machines supposed to have this tilting mechanic? Yes, and "tilt" sensitivity can be adjusted. When I was a kid we called the machines that would tilt at the slightest movement "tight" and the ones you couldn't tilt without pushing them over "loose." The looser the machine, the fewer quarters you have to feed it.
sircastor 3y ago
I watched a video a little while back with a Pinball champion playing Creature of the Black Lagoon, and in his instructions hitting the side of the table to knock the ball some ways was part of his normal play through, even though it potentially risked a tilt.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tanseydavid 3y ago

Nudging (without triggering a TILT) is generally considered a legitimate part of the game play. https://digitalpinballfans.com/threads/was-nudging-always-considered-part-of-the-game.7584/ https://digitalpinballfans.com/threads/was-nudging-always-co...

vikingerik 3y ago

Real pinball absolutely allows nudging. There is a sensor in the machine, a pendulum hanging within a ring so that it makes contact if you move the machine too far. The game software will assess you with a warning at first, and then if you go too far the penalty is to shut down and lose the ball in play. Nudging just enough so you don't trip the sensor, or deliberately going too far to incur the warning when you need to save a ball, is absolutely a component of skilled play.

fauxpause_ 3y ago
Dumb question but how do you do this? Are you gripping the machine with your hands and literally lifting it from different sides?
- vikingerik 3y ago
  Not lifting, but you can push the machine horizontally from your normal position with your hands on the buttons. With your hands at the front corners, you can push north-south or east-west or on any such axis. The machines are designed to allow this; the legs and feet have some flex. What's different from people's experience of virtual pinball is that you're moving the machine underneath the ball, not the ball itself. The computer games like Space Cadet let you deflect the ball in open space anywhere on the playfield... that's not really how it works, Microsoft got that wrong, what you're really doing is pushing objects on the playfield either into or away from the ball.
  - fauxpause_ 3y ago
    Ahhh the legs comment is very interesting. That makes sense
  - relwin 3y ago
    If you're playing a pin that's sitting in "cups" (prevents it from sliding) a non-tilting shove on the side will in fact lift the corner slightly -- I measured with a 3-axis accelerometer back in the day. Rather surprising...
- mcnnowak 3y ago
  You can slap the buttons hard to get the table to wobble a bit, you can tap the cabinet with your wrists, you can grab the table tightly and move a leg or a hip in the opposite direction while keeping your body rigid, you can even slide the whole table if you're feeling desperate and want to burn a warning. It's a super physical game if you're taking risky shots and having to recover from bad situations constantly, and the pros make it look like they're barely nudging at all by taking safe shots and making minor corrections with nudges.
- syntheweave 3y ago
  Imagine you're gripping the handlebars of a bike - you can push it a little bit laterally, but much more by leaning into a turn. Gripping the side of the machine to nudge works in the same way - you can slap it a little bit to get the ball going off its designed trajectory, but you have to use your legs and core to get it to move a lot, and if the game is set tight that will usually set off the tilt warnings.
- beznet 3y ago
  Abe Flips has amazing tutorials showing you different nudging techniques: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRcCbNNTeU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeRcCbNNTeU

pessimizer 3y ago

> Are physical machines supposed to have this tilting mechanic? Yes, and "tilt" sensitivity can be adjusted. When I was a kid we called the machines that would tilt at the slightest movement "tight" and the ones you couldn't tilt without pushing them over "loose." The looser the machine, the fewer quarters you have to feed it.

sircastor 3y ago

I watched a video a little while back with a Pinball champion playing Creature of the Black Lagoon, and in his instructions hitting the side of the table to knock the ball some ways was part of his normal play through, even though it potentially risked a tilt.