3 ms·

Group behind 'cheerful' San Francisco fentanyl ads explains them

17 points by mikhael 3y ago

0zemp2c 3y ago
they aren't delivering the truly great news that all SF residents should indeed cheer about... right now, the number of fentanyl users on the streets of SF is the lowest it will ever be so go out! celebrate! by time your cheers end the moment will have passed and the numer will have increased (to a new it-will-never-again-be-this-low, so I guess you can celebrate that too?)
- abeppu 3y ago
  You sound so confident that the situation can only get monotonically worse from here. Why? What makes you believe that no action or future situation could ever bring down the number of fentanyl users here?
  - drcongo 3y ago
    Quite a lot of them will surely die off.
darth_avocado 3y ago
The irony of San Francisco progressive mindset is that somehow collectively everyone has decided that it is more humane to let people deteriorate on the harsh streets and eventually die than to forcefully check them in rehabs to at least give them a chance to get their lives back.
- hindsightbias 3y ago
  The irony of HN libertarianism mindset is how much they want the state to force people to live the way they demand of them.
  - darth_avocado 3y ago
    > live the way they demand of them If I am the bad guy for expecting people to be lying on the streets in extremely poor physical and mental condition completely drugged out of my mind then I’m okay with that. If living the way I demand of them is just basically not be out on the streets in harsh weather and desperation fueled anti social behavior including violent crime, then maybe those expectations are not unreasonable.
atleastoptimal 3y ago
Hearing all the issues in SF make me believe that all the one-step-at-a-time interventions in the city have no chance of working. There is something fundamentally wrong in the system that gravitate even the highest tax revenues towards a gradual downslope of optimism, public services and general well-being for those who live here. All that I can imagine could work now is a huge shock to the system change that forces things to shift, like, for example, legalizing all drugs, legalizing involuntary commitment, or finding a patch of land 10 miles from any urban area and offering unlimited free drugs to whoever goes there.
- boh 3y ago
  It's amazing that drug legalization is still being considered as a solution given the data coming out of jurisdictions that've attempted it. We see dramatically higher rates of overdose deaths with limited (if any) benefits.
  - bsimpson 3y ago
    [citation needed] I don't know the ins and outs, but I've heard positive things about decrim in Holland and Portugal.
    - sshine 3y ago
      https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-po... > In 2001, Portugal decriminalised the personal possession of all drugs as part of a wider re-orientation of policy towards a health-led approach. Possessing drugs for personal use is instead treated as an administrative offence, meaning it is no longer punishable by imprisonment and does not result in a criminal record and associated stigma.1 Drugs are, however, still confiscated and possession may result in administrative penalties such as fines or community service.
- smegsicle 3y ago
  > finding a patch of land 10 miles from any urban area and offering unlimited free drugs to whoever goes there and then we can liquefy them into a limited edition flavor of soylent it'll be like the new mcrib
Simulacra 3y ago
I don't think San Francisco is going to rebound until they bring in stronger leadership that takes a hard stance on crime, and public safety. Trying to gradually improve the system at the expense of victims, businesses, and the city itself is untenable.
- sshine 3y ago
  > takes a hard stance on crime If only there was some historic evidence to support whether a war, so to speak, on drugs would be effective.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
bsimpson 3y ago
The media in this country is maddeningly biased. "By calling out the livability problems caused by homeless drug addicts, aren't you being mean to their families?"
hindsightbias 3y ago
"We're arguing that we have to offer both the carrot and the stick." So a return to the gloriously successful War on Drugs. Will these coerced treatment centers or new jails be in Hayes Valley, Mission, or? As long as they're next to YIMBY supporters, I'm all in.

17 points by mikhael 3y ago

they aren't delivering the truly great news that all SF residents should indeed cheer about... right now, the number of fentanyl users on the streets of SF is the lowest it will ever be so go out! celebrate! by time your cheers end the moment will have passed and the numer will have increased (to a new it-will-never-again-be-this-low, so I guess you can celebrate that too?)

abeppu 3y ago
You sound so confident that the situation can only get monotonically worse from here. Why? What makes you believe that no action or future situation could ever bring down the number of fentanyl users here?
- drcongo 3y ago
  Quite a lot of them will surely die off.

darth_avocado 3y ago

The irony of San Francisco progressive mindset is that somehow collectively everyone has decided that it is more humane to let people deteriorate on the harsh streets and eventually die than to forcefully check them in rehabs to at least give them a chance to get their lives back.

hindsightbias 3y ago
The irony of HN libertarianism mindset is how much they want the state to force people to live the way they demand of them.
- darth_avocado 3y ago
  > live the way they demand of them If I am the bad guy for expecting people to be lying on the streets in extremely poor physical and mental condition completely drugged out of my mind then I’m okay with that. If living the way I demand of them is just basically not be out on the streets in harsh weather and desperation fueled anti social behavior including violent crime, then maybe those expectations are not unreasonable.

atleastoptimal 3y ago

Hearing all the issues in SF make me believe that all the one-step-at-a-time interventions in the city have no chance of working. There is something fundamentally wrong in the system that gravitate even the highest tax revenues towards a gradual downslope of optimism, public services and general well-being for those who live here. All that I can imagine could work now is a huge shock to the system change that forces things to shift, like, for example, legalizing all drugs, legalizing involuntary commitment, or finding a patch of land 10 miles from any urban area and offering unlimited free drugs to whoever goes there.

boh 3y ago
It's amazing that drug legalization is still being considered as a solution given the data coming out of jurisdictions that've attempted it. We see dramatically higher rates of overdose deaths with limited (if any) benefits.
- bsimpson 3y ago
  [citation needed] I don't know the ins and outs, but I've heard positive things about decrim in Holland and Portugal.
  - sshine 3y ago
    https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight https://transformdrugs.org/blog/drug-decriminalisation-in-po... > In 2001, Portugal decriminalised the personal possession of all drugs as part of a wider re-orientation of policy towards a health-led approach. Possessing drugs for personal use is instead treated as an administrative offence, meaning it is no longer punishable by imprisonment and does not result in a criminal record and associated stigma.1 Drugs are, however, still confiscated and possession may result in administrative penalties such as fines or community service.
smegsicle 3y ago
> finding a patch of land 10 miles from any urban area and offering unlimited free drugs to whoever goes there and then we can liquefy them into a limited edition flavor of soylent it'll be like the new mcrib

Simulacra 3y ago

I don't think San Francisco is going to rebound until they bring in stronger leadership that takes a hard stance on crime, and public safety. Trying to gradually improve the system at the expense of victims, businesses, and the city itself is untenable.

sshine 3y ago
> takes a hard stance on crime If only there was some historic evidence to support whether a war, so to speak, on drugs would be effective.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

bsimpson 3y ago

The media in this country is maddeningly biased. "By calling out the livability problems caused by homeless drug addicts, aren't you being mean to their families?"

hindsightbias 3y ago

"We're arguing that we have to offer both the carrot and the stick." So a return to the gloriously successful War on Drugs. Will these coerced treatment centers or new jails be in Hayes Valley, Mission, or? As long as they're next to YIMBY supporters, I'm all in.