6 ms·

Microsoft will upgrade Windows 10 21H2 users whether they like it or not

44 points by LinuxBender 3y ago

tinus_hn 3y ago
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/whats-new-windows-10-version-22h2 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/whats-ne... What’s new in 22H2? Basically nothing is new in 22H2. So if you’re installing updates anyway, nothing changes when you upgrade to 22H2.
- grumpyprole 3y ago
  Did ChatGPT generate that "What's New" article? Not exactly exciting for a human: "quality improvements to the overall Windows experience in existing feature areas"
  - Dalewyn 3y ago
    That's more or less how Windows changelogs have been written ever since updates started getting bundled into monthly rollups back in the later years of Windows 7.
  - bitwize 3y ago
    It's just the Microsoftese equivalent of the last entry in each Wine update's change notes -- "Various bug fixes" (originally: "Lots of bug fixes").
  - hn_version_0023 3y ago
    Microsoft perfected soft corporate speak before Ballmer was in charge.
- jandrese 3y ago
  I think they made it harder to install without needing to create a Microsoft account, IE to use local accounts. Microsoft has gotten obsessive about their need for you to send them your login information for your local install.
  - tinus_hn 3y ago
    If true, that doesn’t matter for an update. But I think it only changed in Windows 11 where you can’t run the oobe wizard without internet to skip past the account.
- bitcuration 3y ago
  Except a whole new level of slowness got introduced, guess unless you're on the latest Intel cpu aleady you might not feel anything difference.
blibble 3y ago
good luck, I deleted the Windows update service exe it came back a few days later, but I found what did that and deleted that too hasn't come back now
- whalesalad 3y ago
  big brain moves over here
transcriptase 3y ago
They can try. “O&O Shut Up” put an end to that nonsense on my install a long time ago. I’m not worried about a nation state going after my Steam credentials, so any updates they’ve pushed in the last couple years are likely just going to annoy me by changing the UI in some way like adding a 6th or 7th control panel for sound settings, with the real one being hidden deeper into their fever dream of a menu structure.
- mmis1000 3y ago
  They do this. Because without doing this to anyone except who is capable to opt out this by jumping through all the traps they setup. There will be countless of vulnerable devices for ddos network to use.(or countless of victims of ransonware) There are shit tons of "optimized" windows install disk in the past with disabled security measures for "performance". And Microsoft is intentionally make these harder to make.
tpmx 3y ago
Whew, thought it was to Windows 11. Win 10 21H2 to Win 10 22H2 wasn't a very dramatic change for my gaming/etc machine.
- z500 3y ago
  Here's hoping they'll let us sit out Windows 11 until 12 comes out.
  - tpmx 3y ago
    Historically there's often been a lot of bluster about forcing everyone to the new weird version by this and that date, then backtracking with the dates until the major issues have been resolved with a new major version that reverts the weirdest changes. Microsoft's work on Windows appears a bit random but they seem to have a working failsafe at the executive group (or board or billg?) level. At least eventually.
  - mmis1000 3y ago
    I wonder will there be windows 12 in the short term. They haven't even finished their taskbar rework yet. What do you mean by next version? A even more broken desktop environment? Or they just randomly bump the number without changing anything obvious?
surgical_fire 3y ago
Joke's on them, I switched to Linux for good, and I'm not coming back. Used Windows 10 for a while, mostly for gaming, while for development work I relied on WSL. While I think Windows is okay, I sort of dreaded the move to Windows 11. So I tried moving to Linux and honestly, I couldn't have done better. Things like Proton and WINE are being excellent for running games and Windows applications. I can't find a single reason to switch back now. I've been at this for a couple of months and not once I thought "oh crap, I need Windows for that". If anyone is in the same situation I used to be, holding onto Windows for being able to play their game Library, give it a try. With minor tinkering everything works like a charm.
- simonblack 3y ago
  Things like Proton and WINE are being excellent for running games and Windows applications. Probably the only thing I run Windows for (and that's a VM on Linux) is to run HP's Document Scanner software for my HP 426 MFP. I keep hoping great things for Wine and Reactos but, for the moment at least, I'll have to keep on relying on Windows 7 on VirtualBox for my scanning.
  - buccal 3y ago
    HP LIP driver seems to fully support[1] your device both for printing and for scanning. [1] https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supported_devices/index https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supp...
geuis 3y ago
Honestly I'm thinking of trying Linux again on my pc next. I only use Win10 to play games on and do some 3D modeling. Linux's game support has gotten a lot better over the years. I tried the Linux daily driver experiment about 18 years ago and it didn't work well. More than enough time to try it again.
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  I can't tell you about 3D modeling, but gaming should work fine. Proton and WINE are working so well to handle games that it's almost to the level where I consider it magic. Hell, I have some older games that honestly were easier to get running on Linux without having to mess with compatibility options, and newer games are running surprisingly smooth. I do not even have an overpowered machine or anything, it's a 4 year old laptop.
  - ticviking 3y ago
    There's a lot of games that still don't work. Fortunately it's an easy way to pick which games are worth my time.
- Maxburn 3y ago
  I did and it worked out fairly well. Lenovo x1 6th gen fingerprint reader didn't work out well but everything else was easy on ubuntu and mint. Even if you aren't using arch this compatibility list can be a big sign of how your hardware will do; https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carbon_(Gen_10) https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carbon_(...
  - surgical_fire 3y ago
    Did you try this for the fingerprint reader, out of curiosity? https://github.com/uunicorn/python-validity/blob/master/python-validity.spec https://github.com/uunicorn/python-validity/blob/master/pyth... I don't have a Lenovo, I have a Dell, but while tinkering to get the fingerprint reader on my machine working, I had come across this (and I understand it works for Lenovo).
hospitalJail 3y ago
"I like forced updates, it makes me feel safe" - A different company's users. Not that I'm a fan of forced updates, I just find it odd how different users have different preferences, yet users who want control over their computer continue to buy products from authoritarian companies. I cannot figure out how to permanently uninstall M$ edge... I'm pushing my company to switch to Linux. Microsoft finally has done it.
- buffet_overflow 3y ago
  I switched my personal machines over to Linux after Microsoft doubled down on forced restarts. Sometimes I keep windows open to resume in the morning, sometimes I want to leave games or projects open and running for long periods of time, and I’ll get around to updates during my own personal maintenance window. When Microsoft started overriding that in increasingly opinionated ways, I made the switch. The point being, I appreciate having computers around that do what I tell them, instead of having to do what the computer tells me.
  - mmis1000 3y ago
    Force restart is easy to disable on any version of windows (except home). Probably a 2 minutes configuration. I almost think the home version of windows is actually a reduced version of windows. You need at least the pro version to get the normal experience you expect to get from a paid software (while apple don't do that to mac users)
tivert 3y ago
Great. When I was forced to update to Windows 10 21H2, the update failed to install for half a year, until for unclear reasons, it succeeded. In the meantime, I had to sit through the installations, boot failures, and rollbacks dozens of times.
- Lammy 3y ago
  This is still happening to me on my main video workstation running 19H2. I'm really hoping to avoid a reinstall.
StillBored 3y ago
Really the forced obsolescence needs to stop. There is 0 reason why everyone needs a new OS every year. Its not like anything fundamental to computing has changed in the past two decades since the advent of 64-bit PCs and SMP. Sure, you might need some new drivers for USB+1 or a GPU, but for machines that run the same hardware there really isn't a reason that something like a XHCI driver shouldn't be able to work on every single version of windows since 2000 if MS cared enough (and linux is even more shameful). Frankly OS vendors have gotten away with murder for far to long, and if we are going to start mandating lifecycles then the OS vendors shouldn't be the limiting factor (AKA 20+ year OS lifecycles should be mandatory) rather HW efficiency perf or just plain failure rates should be the limiting factor. AKA Your an OS vendor and there is a security bug, your on the hook for fixing it until every single piece of HW it was sold with has reached its useful end of life. Telling people oh you have to upgrade to the version that requires 10x the system resource to run a sprinkler system (or whatever) and requires a new PC is good for business selling HW but bad for literally every other person on the planet.
- belltaco 3y ago
  This is about an update from Windows 10 to... Windows 10. Title is clickbait to deceive people that don't RTFA.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  Sir, this is a Wendy's. Which is to say this clickbaity article is about updating Windows 10 21H2 to Windows 10 22H2. Your rant might be relevant in a thread concerning upgrades to Windows 11.
  - bitcuration 3y ago
    I just upgraded yesterday to 22H2, now my two years old 10th gen i9 felt like a 7th gen i7 which I still have on the side but running Linux after obsoleted it from running Windows. But I just built the i9 two years ago, already I found myself checking on the 12th,13th gen intel cpu prices. Like a time machine, it's back to 15 years ago when I used to upgrade my computer every two years.
johnfonesca 3y ago
As a user, hanging on to a arbitrary and unsupported middle of the road version of Windows 10 is dumb anyway. Either update to latest or move to Windows 11 or Linux.
brundolf 3y ago
This feels intentionally confusing/clickbaity. It sounds like they'll only force people to upgrade to a security-patched version of Windows 10, not to Windows 11, but it's framed in such a way to make you assume the latter (and get upset about it) I've started mentally filtering the theregister.com links I see on here, because they often seem to be this way.
- nerdjon 3y ago
  Yeah that is 100% a clickbait headline and it got me to click, but thankfully it got me to click to the comments instead of the article so I did not reward this behavior. Forcing a security patch vs forcing an update to Windows 11 is massively different. I agree on theregister links, it feels like every time I see an article from them its intentionally misleading. Edit: What really makes it seem like a clickbait headline is the "wether they like it or not" which heavily implies this will be a negative update to Windows 11 (or some other unwanted change) not a security fix.
- atlas_hugged 3y ago
  The Register is kind of known for this style of mimicking old-timey sensationalist headlines while having jokey but accurate content on the inside. In some cases it’s plainly wrong, but I give this one site an exception cuz I love their brand of humor.
- bitcuration 3y ago
  It is because 22H2 will make your windows 10 so slow (unlike any previous updates) that you ended up having to upgrade the hardware and then go to Windows 11. I knew this because it happened to me yesterday. Everybody knows 22H2 is the last update of Windows 10, from a marketing point it's not meant to make Windows 10 better but make you hate Windows 10. I had my doubt too but sadly I was right.

44 points by LinuxBender 3y ago

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/whats-new-windows-10-version-22h2 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/whats-new/whats-ne... What’s new in 22H2? Basically nothing is new in 22H2. So if you’re installing updates anyway, nothing changes when you upgrade to 22H2.

grumpyprole 3y ago
Did ChatGPT generate that "What's New" article? Not exactly exciting for a human: "quality improvements to the overall Windows experience in existing feature areas"
- Dalewyn 3y ago
  That's more or less how Windows changelogs have been written ever since updates started getting bundled into monthly rollups back in the later years of Windows 7.
- bitwize 3y ago
  It's just the Microsoftese equivalent of the last entry in each Wine update's change notes -- "Various bug fixes" (originally: "Lots of bug fixes").
- hn_version_0023 3y ago
  Microsoft perfected soft corporate speak before Ballmer was in charge.
jandrese 3y ago
I think they made it harder to install without needing to create a Microsoft account, IE to use local accounts. Microsoft has gotten obsessive about their need for you to send them your login information for your local install.
- tinus_hn 3y ago
  If true, that doesn’t matter for an update. But I think it only changed in Windows 11 where you can’t run the oobe wizard without internet to skip past the account.
bitcuration 3y ago
Except a whole new level of slowness got introduced, guess unless you're on the latest Intel cpu aleady you might not feel anything difference.

blibble 3y ago

good luck, I deleted the Windows update service exe it came back a few days later, but I found what did that and deleted that too hasn't come back now

whalesalad 3y ago
big brain moves over here

transcriptase 3y ago

They can try. “O&O Shut Up” put an end to that nonsense on my install a long time ago. I’m not worried about a nation state going after my Steam credentials, so any updates they’ve pushed in the last couple years are likely just going to annoy me by changing the UI in some way like adding a 6th or 7th control panel for sound settings, with the real one being hidden deeper into their fever dream of a menu structure.

mmis1000 3y ago
They do this. Because without doing this to anyone except who is capable to opt out this by jumping through all the traps they setup. There will be countless of vulnerable devices for ddos network to use.(or countless of victims of ransonware) There are shit tons of "optimized" windows install disk in the past with disabled security measures for "performance". And Microsoft is intentionally make these harder to make.

tpmx 3y ago

Whew, thought it was to Windows 11. Win 10 21H2 to Win 10 22H2 wasn't a very dramatic change for my gaming/etc machine.

z500 3y ago
Here's hoping they'll let us sit out Windows 11 until 12 comes out.
- tpmx 3y ago
  Historically there's often been a lot of bluster about forcing everyone to the new weird version by this and that date, then backtracking with the dates until the major issues have been resolved with a new major version that reverts the weirdest changes. Microsoft's work on Windows appears a bit random but they seem to have a working failsafe at the executive group (or board or billg?) level. At least eventually.
- mmis1000 3y ago
  I wonder will there be windows 12 in the short term. They haven't even finished their taskbar rework yet. What do you mean by next version? A even more broken desktop environment? Or they just randomly bump the number without changing anything obvious?

surgical_fire 3y ago

Joke's on them, I switched to Linux for good, and I'm not coming back. Used Windows 10 for a while, mostly for gaming, while for development work I relied on WSL. While I think Windows is okay, I sort of dreaded the move to Windows 11. So I tried moving to Linux and honestly, I couldn't have done better. Things like Proton and WINE are being excellent for running games and Windows applications. I can't find a single reason to switch back now. I've been at this for a couple of months and not once I thought "oh crap, I need Windows for that". If anyone is in the same situation I used to be, holding onto Windows for being able to play their game Library, give it a try. With minor tinkering everything works like a charm.

simonblack 3y ago
Things like Proton and WINE are being excellent for running games and Windows applications. Probably the only thing I run Windows for (and that's a VM on Linux) is to run HP's Document Scanner software for my HP 426 MFP. I keep hoping great things for Wine and Reactos but, for the moment at least, I'll have to keep on relying on Windows 7 on VirtualBox for my scanning.
- buccal 3y ago
  HP LIP driver seems to fully support[1] your device both for printing and for scanning. [1] https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supported_devices/index https://developers.hp.com/hp-linux-imaging-and-printing/supp...

geuis 3y ago

Honestly I'm thinking of trying Linux again on my pc next. I only use Win10 to play games on and do some 3D modeling. Linux's game support has gotten a lot better over the years. I tried the Linux daily driver experiment about 18 years ago and it didn't work well. More than enough time to try it again.

surgical_fire 3y ago
I can't tell you about 3D modeling, but gaming should work fine. Proton and WINE are working so well to handle games that it's almost to the level where I consider it magic. Hell, I have some older games that honestly were easier to get running on Linux without having to mess with compatibility options, and newer games are running surprisingly smooth. I do not even have an overpowered machine or anything, it's a 4 year old laptop.
- ticviking 3y ago
  There's a lot of games that still don't work. Fortunately it's an easy way to pick which games are worth my time.
Maxburn 3y ago
I did and it worked out fairly well. Lenovo x1 6th gen fingerprint reader didn't work out well but everything else was easy on ubuntu and mint. Even if you aren't using arch this compatibility list can be a big sign of how your hardware will do; https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carbon_(Gen_10) https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Lenovo_ThinkPad_X1_Carbon_(...
- surgical_fire 3y ago
  Did you try this for the fingerprint reader, out of curiosity? https://github.com/uunicorn/python-validity/blob/master/python-validity.spec https://github.com/uunicorn/python-validity/blob/master/pyth... I don't have a Lenovo, I have a Dell, but while tinkering to get the fingerprint reader on my machine working, I had come across this (and I understand it works for Lenovo).

hospitalJail 3y ago

"I like forced updates, it makes me feel safe" - A different company's users. Not that I'm a fan of forced updates, I just find it odd how different users have different preferences, yet users who want control over their computer continue to buy products from authoritarian companies. I cannot figure out how to permanently uninstall M$ edge... I'm pushing my company to switch to Linux. Microsoft finally has done it.

buffet_overflow 3y ago
I switched my personal machines over to Linux after Microsoft doubled down on forced restarts. Sometimes I keep windows open to resume in the morning, sometimes I want to leave games or projects open and running for long periods of time, and I’ll get around to updates during my own personal maintenance window. When Microsoft started overriding that in increasingly opinionated ways, I made the switch. The point being, I appreciate having computers around that do what I tell them, instead of having to do what the computer tells me.
- mmis1000 3y ago
  Force restart is easy to disable on any version of windows (except home). Probably a 2 minutes configuration. I almost think the home version of windows is actually a reduced version of windows. You need at least the pro version to get the normal experience you expect to get from a paid software (while apple don't do that to mac users)

tivert 3y ago

Great. When I was forced to update to Windows 10 21H2, the update failed to install for half a year, until for unclear reasons, it succeeded. In the meantime, I had to sit through the installations, boot failures, and rollbacks dozens of times.

Lammy 3y ago
This is still happening to me on my main video workstation running 19H2. I'm really hoping to avoid a reinstall.

StillBored 3y ago

Really the forced obsolescence needs to stop. There is 0 reason why everyone needs a new OS every year. Its not like anything fundamental to computing has changed in the past two decades since the advent of 64-bit PCs and SMP. Sure, you might need some new drivers for USB+1 or a GPU, but for machines that run the same hardware there really isn't a reason that something like a XHCI driver shouldn't be able to work on every single version of windows since 2000 if MS cared enough (and linux is even more shameful). Frankly OS vendors have gotten away with murder for far to long, and if we are going to start mandating lifecycles then the OS vendors shouldn't be the limiting factor (AKA 20+ year OS lifecycles should be mandatory) rather HW efficiency perf or just plain failure rates should be the limiting factor. AKA Your an OS vendor and there is a security bug, your on the hook for fixing it until every single piece of HW it was sold with has reached its useful end of life. Telling people oh you have to upgrade to the version that requires 10x the system resource to run a sprinkler system (or whatever) and requires a new PC is good for business selling HW but bad for literally every other person on the planet.

belltaco 3y ago
This is about an update from Windows 10 to... Windows 10. Title is clickbait to deceive people that don't RTFA.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
Dalewyn 3y ago
Sir, this is a Wendy's. Which is to say this clickbaity article is about updating Windows 10 21H2 to Windows 10 22H2. Your rant might be relevant in a thread concerning upgrades to Windows 11.
- bitcuration 3y ago
  I just upgraded yesterday to 22H2, now my two years old 10th gen i9 felt like a 7th gen i7 which I still have on the side but running Linux after obsoleted it from running Windows. But I just built the i9 two years ago, already I found myself checking on the 12th,13th gen intel cpu prices. Like a time machine, it's back to 15 years ago when I used to upgrade my computer every two years.

johnfonesca 3y ago

As a user, hanging on to a arbitrary and unsupported middle of the road version of Windows 10 is dumb anyway. Either update to latest or move to Windows 11 or Linux.

brundolf 3y ago

This feels intentionally confusing/clickbaity. It sounds like they'll only force people to upgrade to a security-patched version of Windows 10, not to Windows 11, but it's framed in such a way to make you assume the latter (and get upset about it) I've started mentally filtering the theregister.com links I see on here, because they often seem to be this way.

nerdjon 3y ago
Yeah that is 100% a clickbait headline and it got me to click, but thankfully it got me to click to the comments instead of the article so I did not reward this behavior. Forcing a security patch vs forcing an update to Windows 11 is massively different. I agree on theregister links, it feels like every time I see an article from them its intentionally misleading. Edit: What really makes it seem like a clickbait headline is the "wether they like it or not" which heavily implies this will be a negative update to Windows 11 (or some other unwanted change) not a security fix.
atlas_hugged 3y ago
The Register is kind of known for this style of mimicking old-timey sensationalist headlines while having jokey but accurate content on the inside. In some cases it’s plainly wrong, but I give this one site an exception cuz I love their brand of humor.
bitcuration 3y ago
It is because 22H2 will make your windows 10 so slow (unlike any previous updates) that you ended up having to upgrade the hardware and then go to Windows 11. I knew this because it happened to me yesterday. Everybody knows 22H2 is the last update of Windows 10, from a marketing point it's not meant to make Windows 10 better but make you hate Windows 10. I had my doubt too but sadly I was right.