5 ms·

I don't mean it as a personal insult at all! The word ilk actually means "a type of people or things similar to those already referred to," it is not an insult

by elil17 3y ago

I don't mean it as a personal insult at all! The word ilk actually means "a type of people or things similar to those already referred to," it is not an insult or rude word.

freedomben 3y ago
TIL! https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ilk https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ilk still, there are probably a lot of people like me who have heard it used (incorrectly it seems) as an insult so many times that it's an automatic response :-(
- TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
  Don't worry, you're not a senator. And, if there's one thing politicians are know for it's got to be ad hominem.
- DANmode 3y ago
  Tone, intended or otherwise, is a pretty important part of communication!
  - nerpderp82 3y ago
    There is this idea that the shape of a word, how it makes your mouth and face move when you say it connotes meaning on its own. This is called "phonosemantics", just saying "ilk" makes one feel like they are flinging off some sticky aggressive slime. Ilk almost always has a negative connotation regardless of what the dictionary says.
mitch3x3 3y ago
It’s always used derogatorily. I agree that you should change it if you don’t mean for it to come across that way.
- elil17 3y ago
  That's simply untrue. Here are several recently published articles which use ilk in a neutral or positive context: https://www.telecomtv.com/content/digital-platforms-services/chatgpt-and-its-ilk-can-help-telcos-cut-costs-and-improve-services-globaldata-47250/ https://www.telecomtv.com/content/digital-platforms-services... https://writingillini.com/2023/05/16/illinois-basketball-illini-teammates-face-off-2023-nba-draft-combine/ https://writingillini.com/2023/05/16/illinois-basketball-ill... https://www.jpost.com/j-spot/article-742911 https://www.jpost.com/j-spot/article-742911
  - fauxpause_ 3y ago
    Doesn’t matter. It won’t be well received. It sounds negative to most readers and being technically correct warns you no points.
    - elil17 3y ago
      Well I don't think it really matters what most readers think of it because I was writing it hoping that it would be read by congressional staffers, who I think will know what ilk means.
      - ChrisClark 3y ago
        It's also possible you could be wrong about something, and maybe people are trying to help you.
  - jerry1979 3y ago
    Remember: you are doing propaganda. Feelings don't care about your facts.
  - dustyleary 3y ago
    It is technically true that ilk is not always used derogatorily. But it is almost always derogatory in modern connotation. https://grammarist.com/words/ilk/#:~:text=It's%20neutral.,a%20disparaging%20or%20dismissive%20manner https://grammarist.com/words/ilk/#:~:text=It's%20neutral.,a%.... Also, note that all of the negative examples are politics related. If a politician reads the word 'ilk', it is going to be interpreted negatively. It might be the case that ilk does "always mean" a negative connotation in politics. You could change 'ilk' to 'friends', and keep the same meaning with very little negative connotation. There is still a slight negative connotation here, in the political arena, but it's a very vague shade, and I like it here. "Altman and his ilk try to claim that..." is a negative phrase because "ilk" is negative, but also because "try to claim" is invalidating and dismissive. So this has elements or notes of an emotional attack, rather than a purely rational argument. If someone is already leaning towards Altman's side, then this will feel like an attack and like you are the enemy. "Altman claims that..." removes all connotation and sticks to just the facts.
hellojesus 3y ago
Don't fret too much. I once wrote to my senator about their desire to implement an unconstitutional wealth tax and told them that if they wanted to fuck someone so badly they should kill themself so they could go blow Jesus, and I still got a response back.
logdap 3y ago
> Kind; class; sort; type; ; -- sometimes used to indicate disapproval when applied to people. > The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition. Yes, only sometimes used to indicate disapproval, but such ambiguity does not work to your favor here. It is better to remove that ambiguity.

by elil17 3y ago

I don't mean it as a personal insult at all! The word ilk actually means "a type of people or things similar to those already referred to," it is not an insult or rude word.

freedomben 3y ago

TIL! https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ilk https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ilk still, there are probably a lot of people like me who have heard it used (incorrectly it seems) as an insult so many times that it's an automatic response :-(

TheSpiceIsLife 3y ago
Don't worry, you're not a senator. And, if there's one thing politicians are know for it's got to be ad hominem.
DANmode 3y ago
Tone, intended or otherwise, is a pretty important part of communication!
- nerpderp82 3y ago
  There is this idea that the shape of a word, how it makes your mouth and face move when you say it connotes meaning on its own. This is called "phonosemantics", just saying "ilk" makes one feel like they are flinging off some sticky aggressive slime. Ilk almost always has a negative connotation regardless of what the dictionary says.

mitch3x3 3y ago

It’s always used derogatorily. I agree that you should change it if you don’t mean for it to come across that way.

elil17 3y ago
That's simply untrue. Here are several recently published articles which use ilk in a neutral or positive context: https://www.telecomtv.com/content/digital-platforms-services/chatgpt-and-its-ilk-can-help-telcos-cut-costs-and-improve-services-globaldata-47250/ https://www.telecomtv.com/content/digital-platforms-services... https://writingillini.com/2023/05/16/illinois-basketball-illini-teammates-face-off-2023-nba-draft-combine/ https://writingillini.com/2023/05/16/illinois-basketball-ill... https://www.jpost.com/j-spot/article-742911 https://www.jpost.com/j-spot/article-742911
- fauxpause_ 3y ago
  Doesn’t matter. It won’t be well received. It sounds negative to most readers and being technically correct warns you no points.
  - elil17 3y ago
    Well I don't think it really matters what most readers think of it because I was writing it hoping that it would be read by congressional staffers, who I think will know what ilk means.
    - ChrisClark 3y ago
      It's also possible you could be wrong about something, and maybe people are trying to help you.
- jerry1979 3y ago
  Remember: you are doing propaganda. Feelings don't care about your facts.
- dustyleary 3y ago
  It is technically true that ilk is not always used derogatorily. But it is almost always derogatory in modern connotation. https://grammarist.com/words/ilk/#:~:text=It's%20neutral.,a%20disparaging%20or%20dismissive%20manner https://grammarist.com/words/ilk/#:~:text=It's%20neutral.,a%.... Also, note that all of the negative examples are politics related. If a politician reads the word 'ilk', it is going to be interpreted negatively. It might be the case that ilk does "always mean" a negative connotation in politics. You could change 'ilk' to 'friends', and keep the same meaning with very little negative connotation. There is still a slight negative connotation here, in the political arena, but it's a very vague shade, and I like it here. "Altman and his ilk try to claim that..." is a negative phrase because "ilk" is negative, but also because "try to claim" is invalidating and dismissive. So this has elements or notes of an emotional attack, rather than a purely rational argument. If someone is already leaning towards Altman's side, then this will feel like an attack and like you are the enemy. "Altman claims that..." removes all connotation and sticks to just the facts.

hellojesus 3y ago

Don't fret too much. I once wrote to my senator about their desire to implement an unconstitutional wealth tax and told them that if they wanted to fuck someone so badly they should kill themself so they could go blow Jesus, and I still got a response back.

logdap 3y ago

> Kind; class; sort; type; ; -- sometimes used to indicate disapproval when applied to people. > The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition. Yes, only sometimes used to indicate disapproval, but such ambiguity does not work to your favor here. It is better to remove that ambiguity.