4 ms·

Pointless rambling but I am tired of Kojima being titled as the sole creator every time he is involved in a game. This cult of personality is silly.

TonyTrapp 3y ago
Game creators are also annoyed by it. ;) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFGyOnLWsAA0GF3?format=jpg&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFGyOnLWsAA0GF3?format=jpg&name=...
- LelouBil 3y ago
  Great quote
- Minor49er 3y ago
  How ironic If anyone else is a fan of the original Deus Ex, one of the writers for it, Sheldon Pacotti, has been writing science fiction for years: http://sheldonpacotti.com/ http://sheldonpacotti.com/
  - tpoacher 3y ago
    I read Demiurge right after I played the original Deus Ex for that reason. It was a masterpiece. Haven't had the chance to read anything by Chris Todd yet (the writer/curator of all the snippets you come across within the game, as opposed to the plot itself), but I remember enjoying his in-game style a lot too at the time.
- arp242 3y ago
  That's double silly as Warren Spector was only marginally involved with Thief for a short time; certainly not the "creator". In his own words: "[I] worked briefly on Thief: The Dark Project (though my impact on that title was, at best, minimal)".
AlexandrB 3y ago
It's not ideal, but it's better than crediting the game entirely to the publisher. Talking about studios can be useful, but then you have to include a year or something since the make up a studio can change radically over time. There are definitely people in the industry that have an outsized influence or a particular style/flavor to their output.
- waboremo 3y ago
  I would argue that it isn't better than crediting the game to the studio. People can look into the game's credits to see who actually worked on it. However when everyone keeps going "Bob made this game", nobody bothers looking into who else. They just become a deity of creation.
pjc50 3y ago
"Auteur theory": somewhat valid, but definitely hides a lot of real creative input by a lot of people.
- atoav 3y ago
  A game, much like a film, is usually a collective effort. Most people don't even have the eyes to see the individual parts that flow into such a work.
deepsun 3y ago
Same for Elon.
somenameforme 3y ago
I wouldn't say it's just a cult of personality though. Game directors control exactly what makes it into a game, what is made for the game, and ultimately how it turns out. No other individual has anywhere near that level of impact, nor responsibility. You can generally see this quite clearly when those big names leave studios, of which there are countless examples. Kojima's final game at Konami was Metal Gear Solid V. After he left, Konami shrugged and made Metal Gear Survive. Suffice to say, the non-Kojima metal gear was a flop. Itagaki is another example. He's the creator of Ninja Gaiden, and also ended up leaving Team Ninja after a dispute. His final game was Ninja Gaiden 2, their first game was Ninja Gaiden 3. And again, the reception went from positive, to flop. And to be clear it's not like these series waxed and waned. Every single Metal Gear game with Kojima received exceptional praise. Similarly for every single Ninja Gaiden game, to a lesser degree. Then they leave, and the series collapse. Obviously far more people work on these games than just the singular name, but if most of these people were replaced with somebody of a similar skillset, the final product would be largely unchanged. --- Reception for Metal Gear Solid V: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V:_The_Phantom_Pain#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V:_The_Phanto... Reception for Metal Gear Survive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Survive#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Survive#Reception Ninja Gaiden 2 Reception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_II#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_II#Reception Ninja Gaiden 3 Reception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_3#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_3#Reception
- nindalf 3y ago
  You appear to be calculating something like Wins Above Replacement by saying the only thing that changed between these releases is the director being replaced. But you don't know that for sure. For example, Kojima would have known the most impactful, most critical staff at Konami. When he started his own thing he might have encouraged them to move. If this had happened Konami would have had to complete the new game with a gutted team, which would explain the poor quality. Of course you can say "well if this is true it only shows that Kojima can attract the best talent to work for him" and sure, that's probably true. But then we can't claim it's all completely Kojima doing the work.
WastingMyTime89 3y ago
That's just author theory applied to video games. Everyone know that games like movies are collective endeavour. The question is: is the final product the manifestation of someone vision?
web3-is-a-scam 3y ago
Well it depends. Hidetaka Miyazaki,for example, is one such “auteur game designer” and it’s very clear when he has had his influence on a game. Just compare Dark Souls 1 or 3 (which he worked on) to Dark Souls 2 (which he didn’t work on) and Bloodborne (which was created by Miyazaki in parallel with DS2) and you’ll see that his influence on games that he has a direct hand in is massive. Or for something more relevant, the first and only Metal Gear game released after Kojima was fired by Konami - Meta Gear: Survive - was an unmitigated disaster. Metal Gear Solid 5 was unfinished and flawed, but there’s no denying that it had Kojima’s flourish on it.

TonyTrapp 3y ago

Game creators are also annoyed by it. ;) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFGyOnLWsAA0GF3?format=jpg&name=small https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFGyOnLWsAA0GF3?format=jpg&name=...

LelouBil 3y ago
Great quote
Minor49er 3y ago
How ironic If anyone else is a fan of the original Deus Ex, one of the writers for it, Sheldon Pacotti, has been writing science fiction for years: http://sheldonpacotti.com/ http://sheldonpacotti.com/
- tpoacher 3y ago
  I read Demiurge right after I played the original Deus Ex for that reason. It was a masterpiece. Haven't had the chance to read anything by Chris Todd yet (the writer/curator of all the snippets you come across within the game, as opposed to the plot itself), but I remember enjoying his in-game style a lot too at the time.
arp242 3y ago
That's double silly as Warren Spector was only marginally involved with Thief for a short time; certainly not the "creator". In his own words: "[I] worked briefly on Thief: The Dark Project (though my impact on that title was, at best, minimal)".

AlexandrB 3y ago

It's not ideal, but it's better than crediting the game entirely to the publisher. Talking about studios can be useful, but then you have to include a year or something since the make up a studio can change radically over time. There are definitely people in the industry that have an outsized influence or a particular style/flavor to their output.

waboremo 3y ago
I would argue that it isn't better than crediting the game to the studio. People can look into the game's credits to see who actually worked on it. However when everyone keeps going "Bob made this game", nobody bothers looking into who else. They just become a deity of creation.

pjc50 3y ago

"Auteur theory": somewhat valid, but definitely hides a lot of real creative input by a lot of people.

atoav 3y ago
A game, much like a film, is usually a collective effort. Most people don't even have the eyes to see the individual parts that flow into such a work.

deepsun 3y ago

Same for Elon.

somenameforme 3y ago

I wouldn't say it's just a cult of personality though. Game directors control exactly what makes it into a game, what is made for the game, and ultimately how it turns out. No other individual has anywhere near that level of impact, nor responsibility. You can generally see this quite clearly when those big names leave studios, of which there are countless examples. Kojima's final game at Konami was Metal Gear Solid V. After he left, Konami shrugged and made Metal Gear Survive. Suffice to say, the non-Kojima metal gear was a flop. Itagaki is another example. He's the creator of Ninja Gaiden, and also ended up leaving Team Ninja after a dispute. His final game was Ninja Gaiden 2, their first game was Ninja Gaiden 3. And again, the reception went from positive, to flop. And to be clear it's not like these series waxed and waned. Every single Metal Gear game with Kojima received exceptional praise. Similarly for every single Ninja Gaiden game, to a lesser degree. Then they leave, and the series collapse. Obviously far more people work on these games than just the singular name, but if most of these people were replaced with somebody of a similar skillset, the final product would be largely unchanged. --- Reception for Metal Gear Solid V: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V:_The_Phantom_Pain#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_V:_The_Phanto... Reception for Metal Gear Survive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Survive#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Survive#Reception Ninja Gaiden 2 Reception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_II#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_II#Reception Ninja Gaiden 3 Reception: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_3#Reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_Gaiden_3#Reception

nindalf 3y ago
You appear to be calculating something like Wins Above Replacement by saying the only thing that changed between these releases is the director being replaced. But you don't know that for sure. For example, Kojima would have known the most impactful, most critical staff at Konami. When he started his own thing he might have encouraged them to move. If this had happened Konami would have had to complete the new game with a gutted team, which would explain the poor quality. Of course you can say "well if this is true it only shows that Kojima can attract the best talent to work for him" and sure, that's probably true. But then we can't claim it's all completely Kojima doing the work.

WastingMyTime89 3y ago

That's just author theory applied to video games. Everyone know that games like movies are collective endeavour. The question is: is the final product the manifestation of someone vision?

web3-is-a-scam 3y ago

Well it depends. Hidetaka Miyazaki,for example, is one such “auteur game designer” and it’s very clear when he has had his influence on a game. Just compare Dark Souls 1 or 3 (which he worked on) to Dark Souls 2 (which he didn’t work on) and Bloodborne (which was created by Miyazaki in parallel with DS2) and you’ll see that his influence on games that he has a direct hand in is massive. Or for something more relevant, the first and only Metal Gear game released after Kojima was fired by Konami - Meta Gear: Survive - was an unmitigated disaster. Metal Gear Solid 5 was unfinished and flawed, but there’s no denying that it had Kojima’s flourish on it.