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Ok, so MongoDB adds requirement for AVX, and then you blame anyone having non-AVX hardware about laziness? Requiring to buy new hardware to run that software? W

by xet7 3y ago

Ok, so MongoDB adds requirement for AVX, and then you blame anyone having non-AVX hardware about laziness? Requiring to buy new hardware to run that software? When there could be possibility to use AVX where feature exists, and not use when it does not exist? Similarly, Win11 adds new requirements for TPM 2.0 etc, so all not having that are blamed about laziness, and required to buy new hardware to run Win11? It's like, if there is not enough landfill already.

pavel_odintsov 3y ago
Great feedback, thank you. We have customers in many countries around the World and in many cases even medium sized businesses cannot afford buying new equipment just to make some random software happy about CPU flags. In multiple countries import tax may reach 50% on top of equipment cost. When multiplied by exceptionally weak local currency even medium level server will cost like racing car. Old equipment without AVX is perfectly capable running modern workloads and artificial requirement to have AVX hurts people and increases digital divide. To address such cases we found nice trick by using FerretDB to replace MongoDB in such environments: https://fastnetmon.com/docs-fnm-advanced/using-fastnetmon-advanced-with-ferretdb-and-postgresql-instead-of-mongodb/ https://fastnetmon.com/docs-fnm-advanced/using-fastnetmon-ad...
LoganDark 3y ago
> Similarly, Win11 adds new requirements for TPM 2.0 etc, so all not having that are blamed about laziness, and required to buy new hardware to run Win11? How are people even finding hardware without a TPM? my random ASUS laptop from 2020 had a TPM, and Apple has been adding (custom) TPMs to all their computers since 2016. It's honestly more impressive that there are so many people without TPMs to use.
- zbrozek 3y ago
  The desktop computer I've been using since 2015 doesn't have a TPM and is still plenty fast for my needs. And probably lots of machines a fair bit newer don't have them either. Hardware from 2020 is very new. Luckily, I have no desire to run Windows 11.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    > The desktop computer I've been using since 2015 doesn't have a TPM Yeah but it's from 2015. Windows 11 is from, like, 2021. That's over 6 years before the OS started asking for something you don't have. I think this is why people cry laziness, because it does legitimately sound that way from an outside perspective.
    - JohnFen 3y ago
      That doesn't sound lazy. That sounds like not wanting to replace perfectly good equipment.
      - LoganDark 3y ago
        For me "perfectly good" means "supporting the capabilities required to run the software I need to run" so once I need to run something that my computer doesn't support, it stops being perfectly good.
- VancouverMan 3y ago
  I don't find it surprising at all. Many of my clients and other individuals I know are still using PCs from 2014 or before. Hardware from that era is still very capable, especially for basic office or home usage. Even if those computers originally ran Windows 7, or 8, or 8.1, pretty much all of the ones I'm familiar with have been upgraded to Windows 10 since then. They could probably run Windows 11 just fine, too, if it weren't for these new requirements that don't really seem all that necessary. Being able to use Windows 11 just isn't a compelling enough reason for these kind of people and organizations to buy new hardware, and to go through the hassle of replacing PCs that are otherwise working fine and have been for nearly a decade or longer.
  - LoganDark 3y ago
    I feel like I just don't understand, as someone who has to upgrade hardware every few years just because it breaks. My PC laptop's keyboard is broken, the bottom panel is snapped off, one of the hinge covers is missing, the ethernet port is broken off the motherboard, the charging cable is soldered in place (because the barrel jack kept breaking), the USB-C port is iffy, the fans keep failing, and it took all that to make me get a new desktop. But that happened in the span of about two years of using the machine in bed. I can't imagine trying to make that machine last any longer, it's a lost cause. > Hardware from that era is still very capable, especially for basic office or home usage. Are people used to waiting for their computers to do things? I can't use slow computers because I heavily depend on multitasking and task switching, but seeing some of the things people put up with—like Firefox taking 15 minutes to load—makes me wonder if everyone else is just okay with having a slow computer.
    - cesarb 3y ago
      > I feel like I just don't understand, as someone who has to upgrade hardware every few years just because it breaks. My PC laptop's keyboard is broken [...] That's your mistake: you're using a laptop. In my experience, desktops are much more robust than laptops (and they're also more modular, so partial replacement when something breaks is viable); most of these people "using PCs from 2014 or before" are probably using desktops. > Are people used to waiting for their computers to do things? I can't use slow computers because I heavily depend on multitasking and task switching, but seeing some of the things people put up with—like Firefox taking 15 minutes to load—makes me wonder if everyone else is just okay with having a slow computer. Yes, they're used to it. You can't stand it because you're used to a faster computer, but those who are used to a slower computer might not even notice it, or they work around it (like going for a coffee while the software starts up).
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > How are people even finding hardware without a TPM? Most of the computers I use don't have TPM. I buy older, used computers, but I think the oldest one I have in every day use is 7 years, so not ancient. Of my friends, both technical and not, most of them have computers that are older than 4 years.

by xet7 3y ago

pavel_odintsov 3y ago

Great feedback, thank you. We have customers in many countries around the World and in many cases even medium sized businesses cannot afford buying new equipment just to make some random software happy about CPU flags. In multiple countries import tax may reach 50% on top of equipment cost. When multiplied by exceptionally weak local currency even medium level server will cost like racing car. Old equipment without AVX is perfectly capable running modern workloads and artificial requirement to have AVX hurts people and increases digital divide. To address such cases we found nice trick by using FerretDB to replace MongoDB in such environments: https://fastnetmon.com/docs-fnm-advanced/using-fastnetmon-advanced-with-ferretdb-and-postgresql-instead-of-mongodb/ https://fastnetmon.com/docs-fnm-advanced/using-fastnetmon-ad...

LoganDark 3y ago

> Similarly, Win11 adds new requirements for TPM 2.0 etc, so all not having that are blamed about laziness, and required to buy new hardware to run Win11? How are people even finding hardware without a TPM? my random ASUS laptop from 2020 had a TPM, and Apple has been adding (custom) TPMs to all their computers since 2016. It's honestly more impressive that there are so many people without TPMs to use.

zbrozek 3y ago
The desktop computer I've been using since 2015 doesn't have a TPM and is still plenty fast for my needs. And probably lots of machines a fair bit newer don't have them either. Hardware from 2020 is very new. Luckily, I have no desire to run Windows 11.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  > The desktop computer I've been using since 2015 doesn't have a TPM Yeah but it's from 2015. Windows 11 is from, like, 2021. That's over 6 years before the OS started asking for something you don't have. I think this is why people cry laziness, because it does legitimately sound that way from an outside perspective.
  - JohnFen 3y ago
    That doesn't sound lazy. That sounds like not wanting to replace perfectly good equipment.
    - LoganDark 3y ago
      For me "perfectly good" means "supporting the capabilities required to run the software I need to run" so once I need to run something that my computer doesn't support, it stops being perfectly good.
VancouverMan 3y ago
I don't find it surprising at all. Many of my clients and other individuals I know are still using PCs from 2014 or before. Hardware from that era is still very capable, especially for basic office or home usage. Even if those computers originally ran Windows 7, or 8, or 8.1, pretty much all of the ones I'm familiar with have been upgraded to Windows 10 since then. They could probably run Windows 11 just fine, too, if it weren't for these new requirements that don't really seem all that necessary. Being able to use Windows 11 just isn't a compelling enough reason for these kind of people and organizations to buy new hardware, and to go through the hassle of replacing PCs that are otherwise working fine and have been for nearly a decade or longer.
- LoganDark 3y ago
  I feel like I just don't understand, as someone who has to upgrade hardware every few years just because it breaks. My PC laptop's keyboard is broken, the bottom panel is snapped off, one of the hinge covers is missing, the ethernet port is broken off the motherboard, the charging cable is soldered in place (because the barrel jack kept breaking), the USB-C port is iffy, the fans keep failing, and it took all that to make me get a new desktop. But that happened in the span of about two years of using the machine in bed. I can't imagine trying to make that machine last any longer, it's a lost cause. > Hardware from that era is still very capable, especially for basic office or home usage. Are people used to waiting for their computers to do things? I can't use slow computers because I heavily depend on multitasking and task switching, but seeing some of the things people put up with—like Firefox taking 15 minutes to load—makes me wonder if everyone else is just okay with having a slow computer.
  - cesarb 3y ago
    > I feel like I just don't understand, as someone who has to upgrade hardware every few years just because it breaks. My PC laptop's keyboard is broken [...] That's your mistake: you're using a laptop. In my experience, desktops are much more robust than laptops (and they're also more modular, so partial replacement when something breaks is viable); most of these people "using PCs from 2014 or before" are probably using desktops. > Are people used to waiting for their computers to do things? I can't use slow computers because I heavily depend on multitasking and task switching, but seeing some of the things people put up with—like Firefox taking 15 minutes to load—makes me wonder if everyone else is just okay with having a slow computer. Yes, they're used to it. You can't stand it because you're used to a faster computer, but those who are used to a slower computer might not even notice it, or they work around it (like going for a coffee while the software starts up).
JohnFen 3y ago
> How are people even finding hardware without a TPM? Most of the computers I use don't have TPM. I buy older, used computers, but I think the oldest one I have in every day use is 7 years, so not ancient. Of my friends, both technical and not, most of them have computers that are older than 4 years.