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> The degree introduces indoctrination. I have yet to hear a principled distinction between "education" and "indoctrination" that doesn't boil down to whether

> The degree introduces indoctrination. I have yet to hear a principled distinction between "education" and "indoctrination" that doesn't boil down to whether the speaker agrees with the content being taught.

FredPret 3y ago
Here's a definition of indoctrination: the country is split nearly 50-50 on political issues, but 99-100% of faculty is in only one of those two camps
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Is that evidence of indoctrination or self selection? Or that faculty are significantly more educated? Or that the system has developed its own selection filters, perhaps some with good reason (and others not so good).
- emodendroket 3y ago
  Take a look at these charts: https://www.zippia.com/advice/democratic-vs-republican-jobs/#very-republican-and-very-democratic-jobs https://www.zippia.com/advice/democratic-vs-republican-jobs/... Have loggers been “indoctrinated” into supporting Republicans? Or do they reasonably see them as more likely to support policies which are favorable to their continued employment?
Cheezmeister 3y ago
LMGPTTFY > Me: What is the etymology of "education"? > ChatGPT: The word "education" comes from the Latin word "educare," which means "to bring up" or "to rear." "Educare" is derived from another Latin word, "educere," which means "to lead out" or "to draw out." The concept behind "education" is closely tied to the idea of drawing out or developing the inherent abilities, talents, and knowledge within an individual. Over time, the term "education" has come to encompass the process of teaching, training, and nurturing someone's intellectual, moral, and social growth. > Me: What is the etymology of "indoctrination"? > ChatGPT: The word "indoctrination" has its roots in the Latin language. It is derived from two Latin words: "in" and "doctrina." > The prefix "in" in Latin often denotes "into" or "inward." The word "doctrina" in Latin means "teaching" or "instruction." > When combined, "in" and "doctrina" form the Latin verb "indoctrinare," which means "to teach" or "to instruct." Over time, "indoctrination" has taken on a more specific connotation, referring to the process of imparting beliefs, ideas, or a particular ideology to someone, often in a forceful or uncritical manner. > It's worth noting that while "education" generally refers to a broader process of learning and intellectual development, "indoctrination" carries the notion of teaching in a way that is heavily influenced by a specific agenda or set of beliefs. Education is showing a customer the door, or if you like leading the horse to water. Indoctrination is frogmarching the prisoner, or drowning the horse.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  Let ChatGPT know that arguing from etymology is an exceptionally weak technique that typically yields quite limited insight.
hnfong 3y ago
I agree with your point, but most of the contents of STEM education aren't that controversial. You can't really disagree with the AM-GM Inequality for example, and most of undergraduate level laws of physics are well accepted by most people. The meta-philosophy of STEM subjects does carry certain amount of indoctrination, but they're usually not explicitly taught as-is.

FredPret 3y ago

Here's a definition of indoctrination: the country is split nearly 50-50 on political issues, but 99-100% of faculty is in only one of those two camps

paulryanrogers 3y ago
Is that evidence of indoctrination or self selection? Or that faculty are significantly more educated? Or that the system has developed its own selection filters, perhaps some with good reason (and others not so good).
emodendroket 3y ago
Take a look at these charts: https://www.zippia.com/advice/democratic-vs-republican-jobs/#very-republican-and-very-democratic-jobs https://www.zippia.com/advice/democratic-vs-republican-jobs/... Have loggers been “indoctrinated” into supporting Republicans? Or do they reasonably see them as more likely to support policies which are favorable to their continued employment?

Cheezmeister 3y ago

LMGPTTFY > Me: What is the etymology of "education"? > ChatGPT: The word "education" comes from the Latin word "educare," which means "to bring up" or "to rear." "Educare" is derived from another Latin word, "educere," which means "to lead out" or "to draw out." The concept behind "education" is closely tied to the idea of drawing out or developing the inherent abilities, talents, and knowledge within an individual. Over time, the term "education" has come to encompass the process of teaching, training, and nurturing someone's intellectual, moral, and social growth. > Me: What is the etymology of "indoctrination"? > ChatGPT: The word "indoctrination" has its roots in the Latin language. It is derived from two Latin words: "in" and "doctrina." > The prefix "in" in Latin often denotes "into" or "inward." The word "doctrina" in Latin means "teaching" or "instruction." > When combined, "in" and "doctrina" form the Latin verb "indoctrinare," which means "to teach" or "to instruct." Over time, "indoctrination" has taken on a more specific connotation, referring to the process of imparting beliefs, ideas, or a particular ideology to someone, often in a forceful or uncritical manner. > It's worth noting that while "education" generally refers to a broader process of learning and intellectual development, "indoctrination" carries the notion of teaching in a way that is heavily influenced by a specific agenda or set of beliefs. Education is showing a customer the door, or if you like leading the horse to water. Indoctrination is frogmarching the prisoner, or drowning the horse.

emodendroket 3y ago
Let ChatGPT know that arguing from etymology is an exceptionally weak technique that typically yields quite limited insight.

hnfong 3y ago

I agree with your point, but most of the contents of STEM education aren't that controversial. You can't really disagree with the AM-GM Inequality for example, and most of undergraduate level laws of physics are well accepted by most people. The meta-philosophy of STEM subjects does carry certain amount of indoctrination, but they're usually not explicitly taught as-is.