3 ms·

Why is it a bad idea? Abstractly, if I had a 100% reliable way to execute all violent criminals, I'd absolutely do it. The only problem I see are false convicti

by sershe 3y ago

Why is it a bad idea? Abstractly, if I had a 100% reliable way to execute all violent criminals, I'd absolutely do it. The only problem I see are false convictions. Taking people with repeated convictions for separate offenses (3 strikes, and such) would reduce that dramatically. Then you have to weight the remaining potential false convictions against actual victims of violent crime that could be prevented, and maybe indirect damage to society. Violent criminals themselves have no moral value in my book.

dragonwriter 3y ago
> Why is it a bad idea? Because institutionalizing killing as a response to violating expectations normalizes killing as a response to violating expectations, and does not do anything to assure that people in whom that value is reinforced also have faith in society’s system of assessing violations.
- sershe 3y ago
  How is it related? That doesn't seem obvious to me. For a different example, does it mean tax law enforcement normalizes taking money from people thus and increases property crime? People usually have separate magisteria for this kind of thing... it's quite obvious when you see how libertarian try and fail to break thru the latter one, trying to make people think of taxes as extortion. I think it's even more disconnected for death penalty vs murder...
93po 3y ago
People like you scare me more than anyone who's in prison for something violent. You want to universally kill people by the millions for making mistakes. This is a perspective completely lacking any empathy and compassion. These are human beings with lives, families, experiences, and have the opportunity for growth and improvement to become a person who can peacefully integrate with society. Giving up on them and murdering them is ridiculous and I really hope you reevaluate your perspective and learn some compassion.
- sershe 3y ago
  > You want to universally kill people by the millions for making mistakes. "Making mistakes"? Really? We are talking about repeat violent crime here. This euphemism combined with below frankly makes me more scared of people like /you/ vs someone in prison for something violent. Unreserved, irrational compassion is really no better than irrational, unreserved tribalism - both are evolutionary baggage making the world a worse place. > This is a perspective completely lacking any empathy and compassion. 1) I don't really see that as a bad thing. This is a policy decision and as such needs to be based on a rational calculation and values, not the feelings known to be hopelessly biased and generally unreliable. 2) Even so, does your perspective have no compassion for future victims of the non-eliminated, non-reformed criminals? > These are human beings with lives, families, experiences, and have the opportunity for growth and improvement to become a person who can peacefully integrate with society. Giving up on them and murdering them is ridiculous and I really hope you reevaluate your perspective and learn some compassion. So I take it you are extremely pro-life on abortion (disclaimer, I am very pro-choice), like no abortion even if there's a risk of mother's death? Cause aside from experiences, fetus has all the same things; in fact its chance of growth an improvement is much higher, if you compare a probabilistic range of outcomes of a new baby vs an existing criminal. That baby could be the guy who cures cancer! Sure, there's health risks for the mother and potential economic burden on society, but given the typical outcomes for criminals (as per original article), there's also a health risk for others and burden on society from keeping them alive. The only difference is criminals already have past experiences. I think for both cases their "future" is a nonsense argument, and experiences don't make any difference.
  - 93po 3y ago
    > I don't really see that as a bad thing. This is a policy decision and as such needs to be based on a rational calculation and values, not the feelings known to be hopelessly biased and generally unreliable. I hope future AGI doesn't behave this way or we're all fucked. > So I take it you are extremely pro-life on abortion Abortion has way more nuance, there isn't a 100% "right" side, ideally there is never a need for abortion, and as someone without a uterus (and has never had one) I shut my mouth on taking sides because it isn't my place to do so. I support uterus owners protecting their own lives and making this decision amongst themselves. Anyway this is exhausting. I'm not going to convince you. I hope you decide one day that killing people by the millions, which would largely be disadvantages groups, is not a good decision for humanity.

by sershe 3y ago

dragonwriter 3y ago

> Why is it a bad idea? Because institutionalizing killing as a response to violating expectations normalizes killing as a response to violating expectations, and does not do anything to assure that people in whom that value is reinforced also have faith in society’s system of assessing violations.

sershe 3y ago
How is it related? That doesn't seem obvious to me. For a different example, does it mean tax law enforcement normalizes taking money from people thus and increases property crime? People usually have separate magisteria for this kind of thing... it's quite obvious when you see how libertarian try and fail to break thru the latter one, trying to make people think of taxes as extortion. I think it's even more disconnected for death penalty vs murder...

93po 3y ago

People like you scare me more than anyone who's in prison for something violent. You want to universally kill people by the millions for making mistakes. This is a perspective completely lacking any empathy and compassion. These are human beings with lives, families, experiences, and have the opportunity for growth and improvement to become a person who can peacefully integrate with society. Giving up on them and murdering them is ridiculous and I really hope you reevaluate your perspective and learn some compassion.

sershe 3y ago
> You want to universally kill people by the millions for making mistakes. "Making mistakes"? Really? We are talking about repeat violent crime here. This euphemism combined with below frankly makes me more scared of people like /you/ vs someone in prison for something violent. Unreserved, irrational compassion is really no better than irrational, unreserved tribalism - both are evolutionary baggage making the world a worse place. > This is a perspective completely lacking any empathy and compassion. 1) I don't really see that as a bad thing. This is a policy decision and as such needs to be based on a rational calculation and values, not the feelings known to be hopelessly biased and generally unreliable. 2) Even so, does your perspective have no compassion for future victims of the non-eliminated, non-reformed criminals? > These are human beings with lives, families, experiences, and have the opportunity for growth and improvement to become a person who can peacefully integrate with society. Giving up on them and murdering them is ridiculous and I really hope you reevaluate your perspective and learn some compassion. So I take it you are extremely pro-life on abortion (disclaimer, I am very pro-choice), like no abortion even if there's a risk of mother's death? Cause aside from experiences, fetus has all the same things; in fact its chance of growth an improvement is much higher, if you compare a probabilistic range of outcomes of a new baby vs an existing criminal. That baby could be the guy who cures cancer! Sure, there's health risks for the mother and potential economic burden on society, but given the typical outcomes for criminals (as per original article), there's also a health risk for others and burden on society from keeping them alive. The only difference is criminals already have past experiences. I think for both cases their "future" is a nonsense argument, and experiences don't make any difference.
- 93po 3y ago
  > I don't really see that as a bad thing. This is a policy decision and as such needs to be based on a rational calculation and values, not the feelings known to be hopelessly biased and generally unreliable. I hope future AGI doesn't behave this way or we're all fucked. > So I take it you are extremely pro-life on abortion Abortion has way more nuance, there isn't a 100% "right" side, ideally there is never a need for abortion, and as someone without a uterus (and has never had one) I shut my mouth on taking sides because it isn't my place to do so. I support uterus owners protecting their own lives and making this decision amongst themselves. Anyway this is exhausting. I'm not going to convince you. I hope you decide one day that killing people by the millions, which would largely be disadvantages groups, is not a good decision for humanity.