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The negativity around this in kind of mind-blowing to me. I would absolutely love access to an effective pan-flu vaccine. I wonder if someday my fantasy of a

The negativity around this in kind of mind-blowing to me. I would absolutely love access to an effective pan-flu vaccine. I wonder if someday my fantasy of a universal Rhinovirus vaccine could become reality too. I can only hope.

hulitu 3y ago
> I would absolutely love access to an effective pan-flu vaccine If they couldn't do it for Covid vaccines, what makes you think they will be able to fo it for imfluenza ?
- technics256 3y ago
  They can, and they are trying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/10/operation-warp-speed-successor-project-nextgen/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/10/operation-w... https://erictopol.substack.com/p/project-next-gen-the-united-states https://erictopol.substack.com/p/project-next-gen-the-united...
- ChrisRR 3y ago
  The aim of the covid vaccine was to have it available as soon as possible. We still don't really have enough information about how it will mutate in the long term Influenza is well understood by now and has had decades to research
- jjeaff 3y ago
  The COVID vaccine reduced severity of COVID and greatly reduced mortality. It also reduced spread albeit to a lesser degree (moreso with earlier strains). I would call that a success and it likely saved millions of lives so far.
  - revelio 3y ago
    Unfortunately all those claims have turned out to be false when people looked more closely at the data and how it was collected. For example: deaths. Look at the Pfizer RCT trial results. There were more deaths in the vaccine arm than the placebo arm. The extra deaths were mostly cardiac/clotting related. There's a reason so many people are confused about this. Governments, academics and media conflate COVID-induced mortality and overall mortality because if they admitted that COVID vaccines could kill a healthy person, it would have led to lots of people at low risk from COVID to not take the vaccines, so they pretended that there are no side effects or only very trivial side effects. But that's not how it works. You have to weigh all the benefits against all the costs. Inject people with a lethal dose of battery acid and then claim the resulting deaths are all a coincidence, and you'll discover it's incredibly effective drug against COVID mortality! But that doesn't mean you actually solved any problem. It's just a statistical artifact caused by dishonesty about side effects. For another example: reducing the spread. No it didn't. Firstly, again, the RCTs didn't even attempt to measure this because you can't. Think about it. So any such claims must rely on inference from dubious observational evidence. But secondly, the observational evidence says the opposite. If what you say was true then cases could not have been higher in 2022 when the majority was fully vaxxed than they were in 2021 or 2020, yet that is the case. Those are just two of the problems with how the authorities work with the data. Even the apparent claims of effectiveness against infection in the early days turn out to be wrong because of a methodological error (deliberate or otherwise) in how the trials and observational data was processed. In reality the vaccines may never have worked. It's all very unfortunate.
    - BensonBear 3y ago
      What? https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-pfizer-health-concerns-idUSKBN28K2R6 https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-pfizer-health-c...
peteradio 3y ago
Why is it mind-blowing? People are worried that another ineffective vaccine is going to be forced on them.

hulitu 3y ago

> I would absolutely love access to an effective pan-flu vaccine If they couldn't do it for Covid vaccines, what makes you think they will be able to fo it for imfluenza ?

technics256 3y ago
They can, and they are trying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/10/operation-warp-speed-successor-project-nextgen/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2023/04/10/operation-w... https://erictopol.substack.com/p/project-next-gen-the-united-states https://erictopol.substack.com/p/project-next-gen-the-united...
ChrisRR 3y ago
The aim of the covid vaccine was to have it available as soon as possible. We still don't really have enough information about how it will mutate in the long term Influenza is well understood by now and has had decades to research
jjeaff 3y ago
The COVID vaccine reduced severity of COVID and greatly reduced mortality. It also reduced spread albeit to a lesser degree (moreso with earlier strains). I would call that a success and it likely saved millions of lives so far.
- revelio 3y ago
  Unfortunately all those claims have turned out to be false when people looked more closely at the data and how it was collected. For example: deaths. Look at the Pfizer RCT trial results. There were more deaths in the vaccine arm than the placebo arm. The extra deaths were mostly cardiac/clotting related. There's a reason so many people are confused about this. Governments, academics and media conflate COVID-induced mortality and overall mortality because if they admitted that COVID vaccines could kill a healthy person, it would have led to lots of people at low risk from COVID to not take the vaccines, so they pretended that there are no side effects or only very trivial side effects. But that's not how it works. You have to weigh all the benefits against all the costs. Inject people with a lethal dose of battery acid and then claim the resulting deaths are all a coincidence, and you'll discover it's incredibly effective drug against COVID mortality! But that doesn't mean you actually solved any problem. It's just a statistical artifact caused by dishonesty about side effects. For another example: reducing the spread. No it didn't. Firstly, again, the RCTs didn't even attempt to measure this because you can't. Think about it. So any such claims must rely on inference from dubious observational evidence. But secondly, the observational evidence says the opposite. If what you say was true then cases could not have been higher in 2022 when the majority was fully vaxxed than they were in 2021 or 2020, yet that is the case. Those are just two of the problems with how the authorities work with the data. Even the apparent claims of effectiveness against infection in the early days turn out to be wrong because of a methodological error (deliberate or otherwise) in how the trials and observational data was processed. In reality the vaccines may never have worked. It's all very unfortunate.
  - BensonBear 3y ago
    What? https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-pfizer-health-concerns-idUSKBN28K2R6 https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-pfizer-health-c...

peteradio 3y ago

Why is it mind-blowing? People are worried that another ineffective vaccine is going to be forced on them.