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Please provide a reference for the claim that the introduction of this plant to the area will result in less biodiversity across geo-biological timescales. Wit

• UncleEntity 3y ago
  https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/10/29/560292442/bats-and-tequila-a-once-boo-tiful-relationship-cursed-by-growing-demands#:~:text=You%20can't%20have%20tequila,bats%20over%20thousands%20of%20years https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/10/29/560292442/ba.... The plants that the bats rely on in Arizona is already on the protected species list and, coincidentally, in the area discussed in TFA.
  • jakear 3y ago
    One species in one small study does not biodiversity across geo-biological timescales make.
• BoiledCabbage 3y ago
  > Please provide a reference for the claim that the introduction of this plant to the area will result in less biodiversity across geo-biological timescales. I really try to refrain from making comments like this, but this has to be one of the most simplistic, self-deluded arguments I've seen listed on this site: "Please provide proof of the impact of this plant on the earth 1 Million years from now. What nobody has shown that? Aha I must be right!" If your rubric for decision making is that no action matters unless you can beforehand determine its impact 1 million years from now, then it's really not valuable for you to comment on anything or participate in any discussion at all.
  • jakear 3y ago
    That is a self-deluded argument, but it isn’t the one I made. It’s the one you saw in the one I made, which reflects more on you than me. Whether it’s valuable for you to comment on anything or participate in any discussion at all is something I’ll do you the curtesy of leaving you to decide.
    • BoiledCabbage 3y ago
      Maybe it's not the argument you intended to make, but it is the one you made.
      • jakear 3y ago
        No, you think I know I’m right. That’s you projecting your biases onto my argument. Don’t do that, it makes for uninteresting discussions.
• ethanbond 3y ago
  Just to rewind, you started with the claim that the distinction between invasive and non-invasive is fully arbitrary and not useful, then further suggested the completely mythological idea that evolution has a “direction” that can be accelerated. I know nothing about this particular weed and its effects, but I don’t need to in order to know your claims are incorrect. If you want instead to make the claim “this particular species isn’t invasive and/or doesn’t yield undesirable effects on its environment” then go ahead and do that, but it’s a very different one.
  • jakear 3y ago
    Evolution is just a fancy way of saying stochastic gradient descent of dna in the biosphere. A SGD routine can clearly move “faster” or “slower”, as can be measured by values like “preserved mutations per century”. Whether the “direction” is the same is up for debate (it almost certainly isn’t), but to claim there’s no “speed” metric that can be associated with Evolution is just absurdist head-burying.
    • ethanbond 3y ago
      Gradient descent is a model of what's actually happening here in reality. Sure, it's useful in some ways and sure, you can label things in your model if it's useful for your thinking. Frankly not sure what you get out of modeling it that way and labeling "preserved mutations per century" as "speeding up," but feel free to do so. One issue with the map-territory violation here is that it's very easy to assume the gradient descent is optimizing for something we care about and find desirable. You are smuggling in the idea that later in the gradient descent is "better" than earlier in the gradient descent. There is nothing in reality that necessitates this. It is totally possible for human contributions to this process (model it as gradient descent if you want, model it as "speeding up" if you want) to optimize things that are in fact very very bad for everything that humans care about.