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Once you agree to make concessions because your counterparty threatens to cause economic disaster if you do not, you have encouraged them to do that over and ov

Once you agree to make concessions because your counterparty threatens to cause economic disaster if you do not, you have encouraged them to do that over and over again to get their way.

tivert 3y ago
> Once you agree to make concessions because your counterparty threatens to cause economic disaster if you do not, you have encouraged them to do that over and over again to get their way. That's just a rationalization for being unwilling to cooperate and compromise. They're both in a car heading towards a cliff. One party has its foot on the gas, the other has its hands on the wheel, and neither will move. Complaining about how unreasonable the other side is doesn't change that fact doesn't make your side reasonable except to your partisans. If the Republicans were responsible, they wouldn't be refusing to pass a debt limit increase. If the Democrats were responsible, they'd compromise now and wait for the next opportunity to repeal the debt limit (not fantasizing about untried gimmicks like platinum coins and a constitutional challenge). Neither party is being responsible.
- yamtaddle 3y ago
  Only one party's making demands and threatening to drive off the cliff if those demands are not met, though.
  - tivert 3y ago
    > Only one party's making demands and threatening to drive off the cliff if those demands are not met, though. No. The Republicans in the House did pass a debt limit increase, but the Democrats are threatening to drive off the cliff unless the increase is done their way. https://www.npr.org/2023/04/26/1172368638/house-of-representatives-narrowly-approves-republican-bill-to-raise-debt-limit https://www.npr.org/2023/04/26/1172368638/house-of-represent...: > The House of Representatives narrowly approved a Republican bill that links avoiding a default with enacting spending cuts and several GOP policies rolling back several of President Biden's policies.
    - yamtaddle 3y ago
      "I've already agreed not to shoot this dog if you give me what I want. Why are you being difficult and holding up the process?" [EDIT] Less flippantly, re-read what you wrote: it's not a refutation of my claim, but instead re-affirms it.
      - tivert 3y ago
        >> Only one party's making demands and threatening to drive off the cliff if those demands are not met, though. > [EDIT] Less flippantly, re-read what you wrote: it's not a refutation of my claim, but instead re-affirms it. No. Are the Democrats going to pass the Republican bill to avoid a default? Refusing to pass anything and pursuing untried gimmicks is driving off the cliff and just hoping for a soft landing. Both parties are making demands.
        yamtaddle 3y ago
        "Don't drive off the cliff" "I agree not to drive off the cliff if you agree to these other things." Yes, technically those are both demands. [EDIT] I think the core thing I'm not getting here is why you think the Republicans aren't the ones demanding something in exchange for a debt ceiling increase because they put those demands in bill form and passed them. I do not follow how that somehow makes it not the thing that it literally is.
        tivert 3y ago
        > "Don't drive off the cliff" > "I agree not to drive off the cliff if you agree to these other things." Both parties have the ability to instantly end this debt ceiling drama right now. They are both choosing not to do so. > [EDIT] I think the core thing I'm not getting here is why you think the Republicans aren't the ones demanding something in exchange for a debt ceiling increase because they put those demands in bill form and passed them. I do not follow how that somehow makes it not the thing that it literally is. Because that's artificial. Legislative action needs to happen, different parties have different bills to achieve that action, and they have to come to an agreement but they've decided to play chicken instead. All the crap about how they're making demands and we're not is just political posturing.
- emodendroket 3y ago
  No it isn’t. In fact it’s exactly what happened. This method of brinksmanship worked once so now this is a regular feature of American political life.

Once you agree to make concessions because your counterparty threatens to cause economic disaster if you do not, you have encouraged them to do that over and over again to get their way.

tivert 3y ago

> Once you agree to make concessions because your counterparty threatens to cause economic disaster if you do not, you have encouraged them to do that over and over again to get their way. That's just a rationalization for being unwilling to cooperate and compromise. They're both in a car heading towards a cliff. One party has its foot on the gas, the other has its hands on the wheel, and neither will move. Complaining about how unreasonable the other side is doesn't change that fact doesn't make your side reasonable except to your partisans. If the Republicans were responsible, they wouldn't be refusing to pass a debt limit increase. If the Democrats were responsible, they'd compromise now and wait for the next opportunity to repeal the debt limit (not fantasizing about untried gimmicks like platinum coins and a constitutional challenge). Neither party is being responsible.

yamtaddle 3y ago
Only one party's making demands and threatening to drive off the cliff if those demands are not met, though.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Only one party's making demands and threatening to drive off the cliff if those demands are not met, though. No. The Republicans in the House did pass a debt limit increase, but the Democrats are threatening to drive off the cliff unless the increase is done their way. https://www.npr.org/2023/04/26/1172368638/house-of-representatives-narrowly-approves-republican-bill-to-raise-debt-limit https://www.npr.org/2023/04/26/1172368638/house-of-represent...: > The House of Representatives narrowly approved a Republican bill that links avoiding a default with enacting spending cuts and several GOP policies rolling back several of President Biden's policies.
  - yamtaddle 3y ago
    "I've already agreed not to shoot this dog if you give me what I want. Why are you being difficult and holding up the process?" [EDIT] Less flippantly, re-read what you wrote: it's not a refutation of my claim, but instead re-affirms it.
    - tivert 3y ago
      >> Only one party's making demands and threatening to drive off the cliff if those demands are not met, though. > [EDIT] Less flippantly, re-read what you wrote: it's not a refutation of my claim, but instead re-affirms it. No. Are the Democrats going to pass the Republican bill to avoid a default? Refusing to pass anything and pursuing untried gimmicks is driving off the cliff and just hoping for a soft landing. Both parties are making demands.
      - yamtaddle 3y ago
        "Don't drive off the cliff" "I agree not to drive off the cliff if you agree to these other things." Yes, technically those are both demands. [EDIT] I think the core thing I'm not getting here is why you think the Republicans aren't the ones demanding something in exchange for a debt ceiling increase because they put those demands in bill form and passed them. I do not follow how that somehow makes it not the thing that it literally is.
        tivert 3y ago
        > "Don't drive off the cliff" > "I agree not to drive off the cliff if you agree to these other things." Both parties have the ability to instantly end this debt ceiling drama right now. They are both choosing not to do so. > [EDIT] I think the core thing I'm not getting here is why you think the Republicans aren't the ones demanding something in exchange for a debt ceiling increase because they put those demands in bill form and passed them. I do not follow how that somehow makes it not the thing that it literally is. Because that's artificial. Legislative action needs to happen, different parties have different bills to achieve that action, and they have to come to an agreement but they've decided to play chicken instead. All the crap about how they're making demands and we're not is just political posturing.
emodendroket 3y ago
No it isn’t. In fact it’s exactly what happened. This method of brinksmanship worked once so now this is a regular feature of American political life.