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Did Stallman do anything new that offended certain political persuasions, or is this cancellation only due to previous controversies/peculiarities? Edit: the l

by tivert 3y ago

Did Stallman do anything new that offended certain political persuasions, or is this cancellation only due to previous controversies/peculiarities? Edit: the level of downvotes/flag-kills of comments just asking "why" and "what happened" is pretty depressing.

VagueMag 3y ago
Stallman made some remarks defending Marvin Minsky (very poorly) from victims' allegations that he abused young girls on Epstein's island. Meanwhile, Reid Hoffman is now known to have visited the island and has not seen any firestorm of cancellations, as far as I'm aware.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Stallman made some remarks defending Marvin Minsky from victims' allegations that he abused young girls on Epstein's Island. Recently, or years ago? Because I'm pretty sure those remarks happened years ago.
- hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
  > Stallman made some remarks defending Marvin Minsky (very poorly) from victims' allegations that he abused young girls on Epstein's island. He basically said that the victims were harmed, that they were forced to have sex, but that probably Epstein also forced them to make sure it's not known, otherwise who would agree to such a relationship, that would be basically rape? Taking into account how easy is to accuse people and that Minsky had died 3 years earlier, Stallman just said what he thought of the situation and witch-hunting. Not to mention that the victim just said that Epstein asked her to have sex with Minsky but there is no mention that it actually happened - at least his wife denies this happened. But this was misrepresented in the media and even in headlines of major papers so I don't think the harm can be ever repaired.
- verbify 3y ago
  Stallman's comments can be verified. However we have no idea what Reid Hoffman saw or did on the island - he had plausible deniability. Therefore Stallman can face social consequences for his actions (without exposing EPFL to a defamation lawsuit), that is much harder with Reid Hoffman.
  - serf 3y ago
    >Stallman's comments can be verified. However we have no idea what Reid Hoffman saw or did on the island we are comparing two people: one participated, and one was giving a personal opinion about the participation. here's my question. why are we pretending as if these two offenses are equal? An opinion can be changed, an action cannot. the plausible deniability factor of acting deaf and blind to a situation that surrounds you is paper-thin.
    - VagueMag 3y ago
      Locals who had never even visited called it "Pedophile Island."
- inglor_cz 3y ago
  This is actually consistent with Freddie de Boer's attempt to define wokeism [0]: It is an abstract academic ideology where symbols and words matter a lot, while real-world activity does not. [0] https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/of-course-you-know-what-woke-means https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/of-course-you-know-what...
alex_lav 3y ago
HN is pretty divided about Stallman. Bringing up the things he actually at one time said, even if later he said something different, results in a lot of downvoting and toxicity. You can't talk about him without it devolving into binary thinking and binary debates. Same as everything else in 2023 I guess. edit Even this comment, which is just listing a series of objective facts, is getting wildly upvoted/downvoted
- busterarm 3y ago
  [flagged]
- kayodelycaon 3y ago
  HN was deeply divided on RMS when I joined back in 2009. Every thread on him was full of this. :/
  - pessimizer 3y ago
    He convinces many people that some business models are unethical. People who benefit from those business models feel like he's taking money out of their pockets.
    - kayodelycaon 3y ago
      This is pretty disingenuous. Outside of open source, almost no one knows who RMS is. For many, his behavior and opinions on social matters have long since dug him into a hole his lack of social skills can't dig him out of. It's all anyone talks about. I haven't heard anything about his opinions on open source for a very long time.
JKCalhoun 3y ago
> the level of downvotes/flag-kills of comments just asking "why" and "what happened" is pretty depressing People I imagine were suspicious that you were not simply asking "why" with the somewhat loaded "offended certain political persuasions" bit.
- tivert 3y ago
  > People I imagine were suspicious that you were not simply asking "why" with the somewhat loaded "offended certain political persuasions" bit. It wasn't just my comment, others were downvoted and flag-killed too (though I can't identify the exact one I saw killed, because it looks like it's been vouched or deleted). And the "offended certain political persuasions" bit is apt, even if some people don't like it. There's a big one nowadays that will characteristically treat people like Stallman has been treated here.
idontpost 3y ago
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by tivert 3y ago

VagueMag 3y ago

Stallman made some remarks defending Marvin Minsky (very poorly) from victims' allegations that he abused young girls on Epstein's island. Meanwhile, Reid Hoffman is now known to have visited the island and has not seen any firestorm of cancellations, as far as I'm aware.

tivert 3y ago
> Stallman made some remarks defending Marvin Minsky from victims' allegations that he abused young girls on Epstein's Island. Recently, or years ago? Because I'm pretty sure those remarks happened years ago.
hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
> Stallman made some remarks defending Marvin Minsky (very poorly) from victims' allegations that he abused young girls on Epstein's island. He basically said that the victims were harmed, that they were forced to have sex, but that probably Epstein also forced them to make sure it's not known, otherwise who would agree to such a relationship, that would be basically rape? Taking into account how easy is to accuse people and that Minsky had died 3 years earlier, Stallman just said what he thought of the situation and witch-hunting. Not to mention that the victim just said that Epstein asked her to have sex with Minsky but there is no mention that it actually happened - at least his wife denies this happened. But this was misrepresented in the media and even in headlines of major papers so I don't think the harm can be ever repaired.
verbify 3y ago
Stallman's comments can be verified. However we have no idea what Reid Hoffman saw or did on the island - he had plausible deniability. Therefore Stallman can face social consequences for his actions (without exposing EPFL to a defamation lawsuit), that is much harder with Reid Hoffman.
- serf 3y ago
  >Stallman's comments can be verified. However we have no idea what Reid Hoffman saw or did on the island we are comparing two people: one participated, and one was giving a personal opinion about the participation. here's my question. why are we pretending as if these two offenses are equal? An opinion can be changed, an action cannot. the plausible deniability factor of acting deaf and blind to a situation that surrounds you is paper-thin.
  - VagueMag 3y ago
    Locals who had never even visited called it "Pedophile Island."
inglor_cz 3y ago
This is actually consistent with Freddie de Boer's attempt to define wokeism [0]: It is an abstract academic ideology where symbols and words matter a lot, while real-world activity does not. [0] https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/of-course-you-know-what-woke-means https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/of-course-you-know-what...

alex_lav 3y ago

HN is pretty divided about Stallman. Bringing up the things he actually at one time said, even if later he said something different, results in a lot of downvoting and toxicity. You can't talk about him without it devolving into binary thinking and binary debates. Same as everything else in 2023 I guess. edit Even this comment, which is just listing a series of objective facts, is getting wildly upvoted/downvoted

busterarm 3y ago
[flagged]
kayodelycaon 3y ago
HN was deeply divided on RMS when I joined back in 2009. Every thread on him was full of this. :/
- pessimizer 3y ago
  He convinces many people that some business models are unethical. People who benefit from those business models feel like he's taking money out of their pockets.
  - kayodelycaon 3y ago
    This is pretty disingenuous. Outside of open source, almost no one knows who RMS is. For many, his behavior and opinions on social matters have long since dug him into a hole his lack of social skills can't dig him out of. It's all anyone talks about. I haven't heard anything about his opinions on open source for a very long time.

JKCalhoun 3y ago

> the level of downvotes/flag-kills of comments just asking "why" and "what happened" is pretty depressing People I imagine were suspicious that you were not simply asking "why" with the somewhat loaded "offended certain political persuasions" bit.

tivert 3y ago
> People I imagine were suspicious that you were not simply asking "why" with the somewhat loaded "offended certain political persuasions" bit. It wasn't just my comment, others were downvoted and flag-killed too (though I can't identify the exact one I saw killed, because it looks like it's been vouched or deleted). And the "offended certain political persuasions" bit is apt, even if some people don't like it. There's a big one nowadays that will characteristically treat people like Stallman has been treated here.

idontpost 3y ago

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