5 ms·

> but i've used graphical terminals like ncd x terminals since 01994, and they provided smooth graphical interactions even over shared 10-megabit ethernet The

> but i've used graphical terminals like ncd x terminals since 01994, and they provided smooth graphical interactions even over shared 10-megabit ethernet The problem is that with the predominance of toolkits like GTK & Qt in the *nix application space, which pre-rasterize everything for easier cross-platform compatibility, X forwarding is nowhere near as efficient as it once was. Under present circumstances, the h.264 route is probably as good as it gets.

kragen 3y ago
the h.264 route used by xpra is dramatically better than remote x-windows has ever been; x11 forwarding has never been great, for reasons including bufferbloat, compatibility problems, and excessive round trips, even if it's not nearly as bad as sixel
- hello_computer 3y ago
  i believe MS RDP has also taken that approach https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/security-compliance-and-identity/remote-desktop-protocol-rdp-10-avc-h-264-improvements-in-windows/ba-p/249588 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/security-compliance-a...
  - kragen 3y ago
    interesting, i thought rdp was a vnc-like protocol with minimal compression, but i don't think i've actually looked at it looks like you're right: > With RDP 8.1 we introduced an AVC/H.264 mixed mode which in addition to using RemoteFX Media Streaming, extended support for AVC/H.264 to images as well, while text is compressed using a proprietary Codec. This mode is used by Windows RT devices running Windows 8.1 and some 3 rd party RDP implementations.
hulitu 3y ago
Real users don't use GTK and QT. Real users use Xt, Xaw(3d) and Motif.
- kragen 3y ago
  xt and xaw are in the same retrocomputing penalty zone as sixel: what is astonishing is not that programs written using them do so little and work so badly, but that they ever work at all motif is not quite as bad, hiding some of the worst parts of xt, but it's still unnecessarily clumsy unfortunately, unlike sixel, there's already enough software written that depends on them that we have to keep supporting them
- hello_computer 3y ago
  Real programmers don't sully their hands with libraries or even surface handles, preferring to rowhammer the primary video buffer instead.
  - kragen 3y ago
    that's going even farther than sixel toward making easy things hard, but maybe it's a joke that points out why people think sixel is cool how about the opposite

kragen 3y ago

the h.264 route used by xpra is dramatically better than remote x-windows has ever been; x11 forwarding has never been great, for reasons including bufferbloat, compatibility problems, and excessive round trips, even if it's not nearly as bad as sixel

hello_computer 3y ago
i believe MS RDP has also taken that approach https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/security-compliance-and-identity/remote-desktop-protocol-rdp-10-avc-h-264-improvements-in-windows/ba-p/249588 https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/security-compliance-a...
- kragen 3y ago
  interesting, i thought rdp was a vnc-like protocol with minimal compression, but i don't think i've actually looked at it looks like you're right: > With RDP 8.1 we introduced an AVC/H.264 mixed mode which in addition to using RemoteFX Media Streaming, extended support for AVC/H.264 to images as well, while text is compressed using a proprietary Codec. This mode is used by Windows RT devices running Windows 8.1 and some 3 rd party RDP implementations.

hulitu 3y ago

Real users don't use GTK and QT. Real users use Xt, Xaw(3d) and Motif.

kragen 3y ago
xt and xaw are in the same retrocomputing penalty zone as sixel: what is astonishing is not that programs written using them do so little and work so badly, but that they ever work at all motif is not quite as bad, hiding some of the worst parts of xt, but it's still unnecessarily clumsy unfortunately, unlike sixel, there's already enough software written that depends on them that we have to keep supporting them
hello_computer 3y ago
Real programmers don't sully their hands with libraries or even surface handles, preferring to rowhammer the primary video buffer instead.
- kragen 3y ago
  that's going even farther than sixel toward making easy things hard, but maybe it's a joke that points out why people think sixel is cool how about the opposite