4 ms·

> It is the way for knowledge workers to have quality of life (versus heading to a coast to save up before you have to leave because the COL is unsustainable in

> It is the way for knowledge workers to have quality of life (versus heading to a coast to save up before you have to leave because the COL is unsustainable into parenthood or retirement) Meh, what you gain in square footage of your house moving in the Midwest, which is what I think you meant by "quality of life", you loose in career opportunities , weather / outdoor activities, quality of food, and cultural enrichment for your children. > (who will settle down and anchor themselves to your community, hopefully). Folks with 4-5x the median income coming into a county is more likely to create resentment than anything too, if they end up staying.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
https://www.axios.com/2023/01/31/cities-pandemic-moving-trends https://www.axios.com/2023/01/31/cities-pandemic-moving-tren... https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/05/03/why-americans-are-leaving-big-cities-behind https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/05/03/why-americans-are-le... (Control-F "On the move from big cities to rural communities" and "On where Americans want to live now") https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture/3479076-americans-are-moving-out-of-major-cities-and-opting-for-southeastern-states-data-show/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture... https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/04/metro-areas-shrinking-population-loss/629665/ https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/04/metr... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Enjoy the city if that's your jam, genuinely! Lots of options for everyone to live their best life.
ROTMetro 3y ago
Let's see, I gained a local ski mountain with reasonable locals season pass rates (cheaper to take the kids skiing than the family going to see a movie every weekend in the winter), got a great boat for the local lake and my kids grew up boat camping (at spots only accessible by boat) where they saw beavers, otters, etc every week. We hiked and picked huckleberries and saw black bears, moose, elk. Friends had wakesurfing boats. We white water rafted and floated rivers. In Santa Cruz we would kinda body surf/boogie board and hike crowded trails. Not sure what culture there was in Santa Cruz we're missing, we went and saw the old missions but other than that??? Biggest thing we missed was the Monterey Aquarium and some food, but we just learned how to make it ourselves.
bart_spoon 3y ago
> Meh, what you gain in square footage of your house moving in the Midwest, which is what I think you meant by "quality of life", you loose in career opportunities , weather / outdoor activities, quality of food, and cultural enrichment for your children. Strongly disagree on virtually every point, and this seems to be a common refrain I hear from those seemingly trying to convince themselves as much as anyone why the sky-high cost of living in certain areas of the country is worth paying. Yes, it's true there is more to eat and go do in many HCOL areas in the country, but there are diminishing returns. Perhaps 20 years ago the gap was significant enough to matter. But these days, even in medium sized Midwestern cities there is typically more variety in cuisine, entertainment, and cultural options than the average person can actually utilize. Weather can also be a driving factor, but even some places that are particularly expensive like Seattle or NYC don't have particularly great weather. And with global warming, the Midwest is generally getting less cold in the winter, while HCOL areas like those out west are getting regular wildfires, record breaking floods, and extreme heat waves, so even on this front the gap is diminishing. As for careers opportunity, that seems to be rapidly disappearing with the advent of remote work. I'm not making the claim that Michigan or Wisconsin are toppling NYC or LA as top destinations for tourism. But there is a difference between a vacation destination and a place to make a living, and it's getting hard to see how some of these HCOL areas in the country make sense given the other options these days, given the cost difference.
- Carrok 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - deepnotderp 3y ago
    Most cities anywhere, even in red states, are pretty liberal. This is another common HCOL area Stockholm syndrome thing.
    - Carrok 3y ago
      [flagged]
dbrueck 3y ago
> you loose in career opportunities , weather / outdoor activities, quality of food, and cultural enrichment for your children Hehe, this generalization is way off the mark. It's ok to live in a coastal/urban/whatever area simply because you like it - no need to tell yourself stories to justify it. :)
- marssaxman 3y ago
  What makes you think there is a difference? Seemingly the "story" here is just an explanation of what the person likes about it.
  - dbrueck 3y ago
    Sure, except that they stated subjective measurements as if they were objective measurements.
    - thatfrenchguy 3y ago
      I mean all of those are technically objective measurements: "career opportunities , weather / outdoor activities, quality of food, and cultural enrichment for your children". It's hard to beat the career opportunities (so far), the weather / outdoor activities ( https://weatherspark.com https://weatherspark.com is awesome weather wise, and a trip to google maps will easily tell you the range of outdoor activities), the quality of food (that you'll have to discover by yourself), and the diversity of cultural enrichment activities for you and your children (same). It'll cost you plenty of money to live in the bay area for sure, but there's a reason for that.
klipklop 3y ago
Considering many bands and live acts now avoid the Bay Area, but heavily tour the mid-west I am going to have to disagree about it all being a negative living in the Midwest.

toomuchtodo 3y ago

https://www.axios.com/2023/01/31/cities-pandemic-moving-trends https://www.axios.com/2023/01/31/cities-pandemic-moving-tren... https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/05/03/why-americans-are-leaving-big-cities-behind https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2023/05/03/why-americans-are-le... (Control-F "On the move from big cities to rural communities" and "On where Americans want to live now") https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture/3479076-americans-are-moving-out-of-major-cities-and-opting-for-southeastern-states-data-show/ https://thehill.com/changing-america/enrichment/arts-culture... https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/04/metro-areas-shrinking-population-loss/629665/ https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2022/04/metr... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Enjoy the city if that's your jam, genuinely! Lots of options for everyone to live their best life.

ROTMetro 3y ago

Let's see, I gained a local ski mountain with reasonable locals season pass rates (cheaper to take the kids skiing than the family going to see a movie every weekend in the winter), got a great boat for the local lake and my kids grew up boat camping (at spots only accessible by boat) where they saw beavers, otters, etc every week. We hiked and picked huckleberries and saw black bears, moose, elk. Friends had wakesurfing boats. We white water rafted and floated rivers. In Santa Cruz we would kinda body surf/boogie board and hike crowded trails. Not sure what culture there was in Santa Cruz we're missing, we went and saw the old missions but other than that??? Biggest thing we missed was the Monterey Aquarium and some food, but we just learned how to make it ourselves.

bart_spoon 3y ago

> Meh, what you gain in square footage of your house moving in the Midwest, which is what I think you meant by "quality of life", you loose in career opportunities , weather / outdoor activities, quality of food, and cultural enrichment for your children. Strongly disagree on virtually every point, and this seems to be a common refrain I hear from those seemingly trying to convince themselves as much as anyone why the sky-high cost of living in certain areas of the country is worth paying. Yes, it's true there is more to eat and go do in many HCOL areas in the country, but there are diminishing returns. Perhaps 20 years ago the gap was significant enough to matter. But these days, even in medium sized Midwestern cities there is typically more variety in cuisine, entertainment, and cultural options than the average person can actually utilize. Weather can also be a driving factor, but even some places that are particularly expensive like Seattle or NYC don't have particularly great weather. And with global warming, the Midwest is generally getting less cold in the winter, while HCOL areas like those out west are getting regular wildfires, record breaking floods, and extreme heat waves, so even on this front the gap is diminishing. As for careers opportunity, that seems to be rapidly disappearing with the advent of remote work. I'm not making the claim that Michigan or Wisconsin are toppling NYC or LA as top destinations for tourism. But there is a difference between a vacation destination and a place to make a living, and it's getting hard to see how some of these HCOL areas in the country make sense given the other options these days, given the cost difference.

Carrok 3y ago
[flagged]
- deepnotderp 3y ago
  Most cities anywhere, even in red states, are pretty liberal. This is another common HCOL area Stockholm syndrome thing.
  - Carrok 3y ago
    [flagged]

dbrueck 3y ago

> you loose in career opportunities , weather / outdoor activities, quality of food, and cultural enrichment for your children Hehe, this generalization is way off the mark. It's ok to live in a coastal/urban/whatever area simply because you like it - no need to tell yourself stories to justify it. :)

marssaxman 3y ago
What makes you think there is a difference? Seemingly the "story" here is just an explanation of what the person likes about it.
- dbrueck 3y ago
  Sure, except that they stated subjective measurements as if they were objective measurements.
  - thatfrenchguy 3y ago
    I mean all of those are technically objective measurements: "career opportunities , weather / outdoor activities, quality of food, and cultural enrichment for your children". It's hard to beat the career opportunities (so far), the weather / outdoor activities ( https://weatherspark.com https://weatherspark.com is awesome weather wise, and a trip to google maps will easily tell you the range of outdoor activities), the quality of food (that you'll have to discover by yourself), and the diversity of cultural enrichment activities for you and your children (same). It'll cost you plenty of money to live in the bay area for sure, but there's a reason for that.

klipklop 3y ago

Considering many bands and live acts now avoid the Bay Area, but heavily tour the mid-west I am going to have to disagree about it all being a negative living in the Midwest.