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> This is like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. C'mon. Guns are dumb. Smartphones are smart. It's entirely possible to set up a smart

> This is like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" argument. C'mon. Guns are dumb. Smartphones are smart. It's entirely possible to set up a smartphone in a way that blocks access to certain apps, limits how many hours you can use an app in a day, etc etc. The only way your parallel works is if guns had the ability to selectively target bad guys.

throwaway3838g 3y ago
I’m not convinced that an enterprising kid couldn’t easily bypass these restrictions
- Shared404 3y ago
  I'm convinced that barring kids who are exclusively homeschooled, every kid has a way to bypass these restrictions either by themselves or with a classmates help. Source: was a kid not that long ago.
  - cassac 3y ago
    That’s true of nearly everything though. That lock on your front door? I can easily bypass it but yet you still have it. Anyone determined enough can do almost anything. But throw a wide enough net and at least you can prevent the casual and lazy offenders. Also I think prevention is an ongoing thing not a one and done thing. You shouldn’t say “oh I put a dns block on YouTube so now I don’t need to follow up on my kids” and I feel a lot of parents do just that.
- treeman79 3y ago
  My teenager has fake icons on her phone that say Snapchat, instagram, etc. they open up the calculator apps. She doesn’t like being embarrassed that she’s not on social media, so she fakes it to fit in. Her Grandma didn’t smoke, but all her friends did. So she kept a pack in her purse for years, never touched it. But had to fit in.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    The people your teenager are trying to fit in with check to see for an app icon, but not the friend request from the social media account and posting history?
sdfghswe 3y ago
You can also lock guns away, and people find way past the locks. Someone forgets to lock them or someone actively breaks the lock. Sure, smartphones aren't the problem _in themselves_. But blocking apps is also not the solution.
- trgn 3y ago
  fwiw - I think we're largely on the same page on this specific issue. Maybe a philosophical divergence though: > Sure, smartphones aren't the problem _in themselves_. It is time we start to accept that some technologies are vile, and yes, they are a problem _in themselves_. The modernist mind (ie. the human mind as it exists today) cannot accept this because it seems like a fetishistic argument. Consider the evil monkey paw, that thing itself is evil. A modernist will refuse to accept such a reality. We have conditioned ourselves and each other that each inanimate thing is just an inert tool, applied in good or bad judgement. In a materialistic sense this is true. It is also completely trivial. Taking a step back, and surveying the totality of the environment, how some technologies just seem to be misapplied consistently, how some technologies leave a wake of destruction, how some technologies seem to cast an evil spell on everybody in its orbit. This is the reality in which we find ourselves. The only way out is true. Smashing the idol is the only way to ban the evil spirit.
- cassac 3y ago
  I don’t think “the solution” exists because the problem at its core is people and you can’t solve people. If blocking apps reduces the problem even a tiny bit it is just one more preventative tool to add to the tool box. Why limit your toolbox?
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Spooky23 3y ago
Possible yes. Practical for the average parent? No. I’m a pretty sophisticated technology and mobile user. I’ve built out MDM and MAM solutions for significant deployments of smartphones - setting up limits on individual phones is complex, time consuming, and unreliable. The median user can probably implement a time limit on iOS, but I’d guess 40% of them don’t do it correctly the first time. A gun is easy to secure. You either don’t have one, lock it, or lock the ammo and gun separately. Physical controls prevent accidental discharge and are easily understood by reasonably intelligent people. The gun argument is a bad comparison because the rational people who use guns as a tool get drowned out in the noise of paranoids and people selling gun swag.

throwaway3838g 3y ago

I’m not convinced that an enterprising kid couldn’t easily bypass these restrictions

Shared404 3y ago
I'm convinced that barring kids who are exclusively homeschooled, every kid has a way to bypass these restrictions either by themselves or with a classmates help. Source: was a kid not that long ago.
- cassac 3y ago
  That’s true of nearly everything though. That lock on your front door? I can easily bypass it but yet you still have it. Anyone determined enough can do almost anything. But throw a wide enough net and at least you can prevent the casual and lazy offenders. Also I think prevention is an ongoing thing not a one and done thing. You shouldn’t say “oh I put a dns block on YouTube so now I don’t need to follow up on my kids” and I feel a lot of parents do just that.
treeman79 3y ago
My teenager has fake icons on her phone that say Snapchat, instagram, etc. they open up the calculator apps. She doesn’t like being embarrassed that she’s not on social media, so she fakes it to fit in. Her Grandma didn’t smoke, but all her friends did. So she kept a pack in her purse for years, never touched it. But had to fit in.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  The people your teenager are trying to fit in with check to see for an app icon, but not the friend request from the social media account and posting history?

sdfghswe 3y ago

You can also lock guns away, and people find way past the locks. Someone forgets to lock them or someone actively breaks the lock. Sure, smartphones aren't the problem _in themselves_. But blocking apps is also not the solution.

trgn 3y ago
fwiw - I think we're largely on the same page on this specific issue. Maybe a philosophical divergence though: > Sure, smartphones aren't the problem _in themselves_. It is time we start to accept that some technologies are vile, and yes, they are a problem _in themselves_. The modernist mind (ie. the human mind as it exists today) cannot accept this because it seems like a fetishistic argument. Consider the evil monkey paw, that thing itself is evil. A modernist will refuse to accept such a reality. We have conditioned ourselves and each other that each inanimate thing is just an inert tool, applied in good or bad judgement. In a materialistic sense this is true. It is also completely trivial. Taking a step back, and surveying the totality of the environment, how some technologies just seem to be misapplied consistently, how some technologies leave a wake of destruction, how some technologies seem to cast an evil spell on everybody in its orbit. This is the reality in which we find ourselves. The only way out is true. Smashing the idol is the only way to ban the evil spirit.
cassac 3y ago
I don’t think “the solution” exists because the problem at its core is people and you can’t solve people. If blocking apps reduces the problem even a tiny bit it is just one more preventative tool to add to the tool box. Why limit your toolbox?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Spooky23 3y ago

Possible yes. Practical for the average parent? No. I’m a pretty sophisticated technology and mobile user. I’ve built out MDM and MAM solutions for significant deployments of smartphones - setting up limits on individual phones is complex, time consuming, and unreliable. The median user can probably implement a time limit on iOS, but I’d guess 40% of them don’t do it correctly the first time. A gun is easy to secure. You either don’t have one, lock it, or lock the ammo and gun separately. Physical controls prevent accidental discharge and are easily understood by reasonably intelligent people. The gun argument is a bad comparison because the rational people who use guns as a tool get drowned out in the noise of paranoids and people selling gun swag.