3 ms·

Well sure, they're not some sort of magical potion that melts fat from your frame. You can use sweeteners in place of sugar to reduce total calories consumed.

by throwaway22032 3y ago

Well sure, they're not some sort of magical potion that melts fat from your frame. You can use sweeteners in place of sugar to reduce total calories consumed. There's not much more to it. People overthink this stuff way too much. There is no magic "eat this not that". The reality is that most people just need to eat slightly less forever, or do slightly more exercise forever, tracking it if necessary. But a teaspoon of sugar is approx 20 calories. It's a rounding error in most people's calorie intake.

klyrs 3y ago
The WHO report is based on a high-level correlation that people who consume lots of artificial sweeteners get type-2 diabetes. It's worth inquiring about the causative effect. There's a growing body of research showing that artificial sweeteners may actually cause weight gain because they trick our body to expect a bunch of calories that aren't coming; which ends up making us hungrier faster. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210928/Artificial-sweeteners-in-drinks-may-increase-food-cravings-and-appetite-study-reveals.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210928/Artificial-sweete... https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Diet/story?id=4792065&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Diet/story?id=4792065&page... Artificial sweeteners aren't just not going to melt fat; they may actually act as a fat magnet through a spiralling action: they provide an illusion that food is "not fattening", diminishing one's apparent need for self control; and then they cause hunger pangs. The terminus of this spiral is type-2 diabetes.
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  Yes, but feeling hungry doesn't cause weight gain. Acting on it excessively does. It would be odd to say that "preparing gym bag the night before" leads to muscle growth. It's correlated sure, it's a good willpower/discipline hack, but the actual thing that caused the muscle growth was the workout (and rest and diet etc.) edit: ah I see now. Yes, I agree that zero calorie food is probably bad news. I was thinking more along the lines of e.g. protein shakes with sweeteners, cake with a bit less sugar in it etc. Soda is obviously bad IMO.
  - klyrs 3y ago
    > Yes, but feeling hungry doesn't cause weight gain. Acting on it excessively does. Tobacco doesn't cause lung cancer; smoking it does. Last century, we had to crack down on tobacco companies selling cigarettes as a healthy choice. It has become clear that artificial sweeteners do not live up to the medical claims that they have been sold under; they're possibly a major contributor to the obesity epidemic. Your "personal responsibility" schtick sounds great in a vacuum, but people are susceptible to marketing campaigns bombarding them with a counter-message: you don't need self control, just eat our magical non-fattening food!
- hendersoon 3y ago
  That's just a correlation. People with type 2 diabetes are overwhelmingly overweight. Perhaps they were trying to cut their calorie intake, that seems plausible to me. There's a pretty clear correlation to insulin resistance too. Problem is of course correlation isn't causation. We don't yet understand the action mechanism. Essentially the WHO's recommendation can be boiled down to "Overweight people sure drink a lot of diet soda, but they don't seem to be thin. Maybe it isn't helping?" Well, maybe it isn't. Maybe it has no effect either way. Maybe it helps cut down calorie intake versus sugar, but increases cravings elsewhere. Maybe it tricks the body into thinking you ate something sweet, releasing insulin unnecessarily, and thus causing insulin resistance (that's my guess). Or maybe someone correlated data and drew completely incorrect conclusions based on their own bias. We don't yet know. That said as of right now, it does seem prudent to eliminate or at least cut down on artificial sweeteners. But I could have said the same thing 20 years ago about avoiding eggs to drop your cholesterol, and that would have been wrong. Insert shrug emoji here.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
SnooSux 3y ago
> But a teaspoon of sugar is approx 20 calories. It's a rounding error in most people's calorie intake. I agree with everything except for this in the context of this article. A can of coke is about 8 teaspoons, which is closer to 150 calories. That number is higher for other sodas like Mountain Dew or larger bottle of soda. Depending on your habits this may be a rounding error in a given week/month or a significant part of your calorie consumption.
- throwaway22032 3y ago
  Agree. I guess I was thinking of tea/coffee. I don't really think of soda as being a serious component of someone's diet. I mean, it's totally optional, just drink water lol. The main issue with sweeteners it seems is that people use them to justify eating/drinking non-foods. I wonder if the same effect comes up when people have like, roast chicken with a sweetened sauce rather than honey or equivalent.
  - hendersoon 3y ago
    Sugar is in lots of processed foods, not just Dr. Pepper. When the latest diet fad encouraged cutting fat, the brands turned to sugar. It's not just in food you think of as sweet-- check labels on yogurt, for example. It's often in bread, and BBQ sauce, ketchup, etc.
  - Kirby64 3y ago
    I think you vastly underestimate soda consumption. There's some folks who legitimately almost don't drink water, and only drink soda instead. Switching to diet soda can easily be 300-800 calories gained back. It's the same thing with beer, which is roughly the same calorie count as a soda of equivalent size. Folks switching from a 'regular' beer to light beer or (even better) liquor can easily drop weight due to the difference in calories between the two. A pound of fat is ~3500 calories, so gaining 1 pound only requires you to eat (or, rather drink) ~24 sodas or beers over your maintenance rate of energy consumption.
    - throwaway22032 3y ago

klyrs 3y ago

The WHO report is based on a high-level correlation that people who consume lots of artificial sweeteners get type-2 diabetes. It's worth inquiring about the causative effect. There's a growing body of research showing that artificial sweeteners may actually cause weight gain because they trick our body to expect a bunch of calories that aren't coming; which ends up making us hungrier faster. https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210928/Artificial-sweeteners-in-drinks-may-increase-food-cravings-and-appetite-study-reveals.aspx https://www.news-medical.net/news/20210928/Artificial-sweete... https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Diet/story?id=4792065&page=1 https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Diet/story?id=4792065&page... Artificial sweeteners aren't just not going to melt fat; they may actually act as a fat magnet through a spiralling action: they provide an illusion that food is "not fattening", diminishing one's apparent need for self control; and then they cause hunger pangs. The terminus of this spiral is type-2 diabetes.

throwaway22032 3y ago
Yes, but feeling hungry doesn't cause weight gain. Acting on it excessively does. It would be odd to say that "preparing gym bag the night before" leads to muscle growth. It's correlated sure, it's a good willpower/discipline hack, but the actual thing that caused the muscle growth was the workout (and rest and diet etc.) edit: ah I see now. Yes, I agree that zero calorie food is probably bad news. I was thinking more along the lines of e.g. protein shakes with sweeteners, cake with a bit less sugar in it etc. Soda is obviously bad IMO.
- klyrs 3y ago
  > Yes, but feeling hungry doesn't cause weight gain. Acting on it excessively does. Tobacco doesn't cause lung cancer; smoking it does. Last century, we had to crack down on tobacco companies selling cigarettes as a healthy choice. It has become clear that artificial sweeteners do not live up to the medical claims that they have been sold under; they're possibly a major contributor to the obesity epidemic. Your "personal responsibility" schtick sounds great in a vacuum, but people are susceptible to marketing campaigns bombarding them with a counter-message: you don't need self control, just eat our magical non-fattening food!
hendersoon 3y ago
That's just a correlation. People with type 2 diabetes are overwhelmingly overweight. Perhaps they were trying to cut their calorie intake, that seems plausible to me. There's a pretty clear correlation to insulin resistance too. Problem is of course correlation isn't causation. We don't yet understand the action mechanism. Essentially the WHO's recommendation can be boiled down to "Overweight people sure drink a lot of diet soda, but they don't seem to be thin. Maybe it isn't helping?" Well, maybe it isn't. Maybe it has no effect either way. Maybe it helps cut down calorie intake versus sugar, but increases cravings elsewhere. Maybe it tricks the body into thinking you ate something sweet, releasing insulin unnecessarily, and thus causing insulin resistance (that's my guess). Or maybe someone correlated data and drew completely incorrect conclusions based on their own bias. We don't yet know. That said as of right now, it does seem prudent to eliminate or at least cut down on artificial sweeteners. But I could have said the same thing 20 years ago about avoiding eggs to drop your cholesterol, and that would have been wrong. Insert shrug emoji here.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

SnooSux 3y ago

> But a teaspoon of sugar is approx 20 calories. It's a rounding error in most people's calorie intake. I agree with everything except for this in the context of this article. A can of coke is about 8 teaspoons, which is closer to 150 calories. That number is higher for other sodas like Mountain Dew or larger bottle of soda. Depending on your habits this may be a rounding error in a given week/month or a significant part of your calorie consumption.

throwaway22032 3y ago
Agree. I guess I was thinking of tea/coffee. I don't really think of soda as being a serious component of someone's diet. I mean, it's totally optional, just drink water lol. The main issue with sweeteners it seems is that people use them to justify eating/drinking non-foods. I wonder if the same effect comes up when people have like, roast chicken with a sweetened sauce rather than honey or equivalent.
- hendersoon 3y ago
  Sugar is in lots of processed foods, not just Dr. Pepper. When the latest diet fad encouraged cutting fat, the brands turned to sugar. It's not just in food you think of as sweet-- check labels on yogurt, for example. It's often in bread, and BBQ sauce, ketchup, etc.
- Kirby64 3y ago
  I think you vastly underestimate soda consumption. There's some folks who legitimately almost don't drink water, and only drink soda instead. Switching to diet soda can easily be 300-800 calories gained back. It's the same thing with beer, which is roughly the same calorie count as a soda of equivalent size. Folks switching from a 'regular' beer to light beer or (even better) liquor can easily drop weight due to the difference in calories between the two. A pound of fat is ~3500 calories, so gaining 1 pound only requires you to eat (or, rather drink) ~24 sodas or beers over your maintenance rate of energy consumption.
  - throwaway22032 3y ago