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This is one of those obvious correlations that for some reason everyone needs to question. It's not the cellphone itself that's the problem, it's the addictive

by 23B1 3y ago

This is one of those obvious correlations that for some reason everyone needs to question. It's not the cellphone itself that's the problem, it's the addictive content readily accessible therein. I'm no luddite, but it's pretty obvious that humans aren't meant to be bent over little black rectangles all day, addicted to our own insecurities.

Clubber 3y ago
>it's the addictive content readily accessible therein. That should be questioned too. We don't know what's causing it. It might be the parents consuming of polarizing / doomsday politics effecting their interaction with the kids. It could be parents forced to work more because of costs. It could be the after effects of Covid. It could be that therapy became normalized and kids were always this way, but it's much more accounted for because they aren't afraid to tell people about it. It could be a lot of things at the same time.
- IceHegel 3y ago
  > We don’t know what’s causing it. Speculatively, I’d say it’s social media for girls (instagram, tiktok, snapchat) and porn for boys.
  - dumpsterlid 3y ago
    [dead]
  - trinix912 3y ago
    As if it’s impossible for boys to have body image issues because of all those Instagram models.
    - hibikir 3y ago
      Oh, boys can absolutely have image problems for looking at instagram models. In general, comparing oneself to the photoshopped version of people that are already in the top percentage in the good looks lottery is bad, regardless of gender. However, statistically speaking, boys just don't follow male instagram models in the first place. Far fewer install instagram in the first place, and if they do, it's not to get fashion tips and lifestyle advice models. Those that do are probably going to end up very insecure too. But in practice, boys don't do that, and therefore the practical levels of harm are lower. It's just like how teenagers that have friends that binge drink end up having more alcohol related problems. It's not that the alcohol itself is more dangerous, physically speaking, the more friends that drink the teenager has. It's that if their friends are binge drinkers, chances are higher that they themselves will binge drink too.
      - 23B1 3y ago
        Also I don't think it's 'kosher' amongst the male species to admit and seek mental health assistance either – so THAT correlation could be an important one.
  - joshspankit 3y ago
    You might be surprised by how much boys are affected by social media
IceHegel 3y ago
There was a period of time from about 2011-2013 where it felt like many parents would complain about everyone being on their phone. Then they started using them too and stopped complaining.
- naravara 3y ago
  If anything parents are as bad or worse than the kids now. I'm about 40 and am constantly having to remind my own parents to put the phone away and be more present with their grandkids when they come to visit.
  - Loughla 3y ago
    Went to a high school graduation this weekend. Because we were running behind, we were in the top of the seats, right in the middle. It was nice because we could see absolutely everything, and I did notice a trend - In the crowd, the 50+ year olds were the ones getting their phones out to dick around during the ceremony. Youth would get the phone out to take pictures, post quickly on socials, then put the phone away. Older folks would take a picture, post on socials, scroll through socials, check the news or whatever, then take another picture and repeat.
    - itronitron 3y ago
      My children are around that age, which means I recall going to young children's birthday parties at the age (5 to 8) where about half the parents would stick around for the whole party, but they would all be scrolling through their smartphones. This was probably around 2010.
    - hotpotamus 3y ago
      I've always found most peoples' fascination with their screens a bit uncanny, but I have to say that I do understand anything that could pass the time at a graduation ceremony. I skipped my own college ceremony, and my only regret to this day is that I didn't apply for tickets because people were re-selling them for decent money.
  - 3y ago
raincole 3y ago
The "obvious" correlations are the ones that need to be questioned the most.
- peteradio 3y ago
  Are we certain punching ourselves in the face is causing the bruising? It's almost too obvious and therefore necessitates extra scrutiny.
- dudeofea 3y ago
  I'm glad I'm on the "right" "side" of "history"
- 23B1 3y ago
  "I understand you think the water is wet and the sky is blue – but what does wet mean? What does blue mean?" Great questions for interesting philosophical and academic debate. Silly questions for deciding how to, say, raise kids.
  - Tokkemon 3y ago
    Way to totally miss the point.
    - 23B1 3y ago
      How so?
      - lotsofpulp 3y ago
        Neither of your examples are inferring causation from correlation, they are just questions about how to define wet and blue.
        23B1 3y ago
        Yes, but they're obvious things that could be dissected ad nauseam in the course of academic – as opposed to pragmatic – discourse. Water is wet, sky is blue, obsessive social media use is bad. I understand this is HN and the Internet, and so niggling academic arguments are fun and all, but sometimes it's okay for the obvious to be uncontroversial.
maxehmookau 3y ago
> It's not the cellphone itself that's the problem, it's the addictive content readily accessible therein. Hard agree. My phone has revolutionised getting shit done. I have my calendar, maps for the entire planet, todo list, and so many other tools that make everyday, very average, life less of a chore. But it also has dopamine dispensers like TikTok, Facebook and Instagram that are designed to absorb as much of my time as they possibly can and expose me to as much stuff to buy as possible. Social media needs to be regulated like any other addictive substance. Just because we don't eat, smoke or snort it doesn't mean it's not just as dangerous.
makeitdouble 3y ago
By that token, humans weren't meant to get medical procedures on chronical illnesses and live up to 100+ years. What humans were meant to doesn't really help, and what long lasting impacts smart phone will have is pretty much up for debate. My view on this is, we have natural defense + evolutionary mechanisms to deal with potential exctintion events. If you really want to look at the issue at such a basic level, tell me how the human race will be decimated via the arrival of smart phones.
- 23B1 3y ago
  I think looking at things like the speed of evolution (through the lens of neuroscience or sociology) relative to the speed of industrialization and see some pretty clear markers as to what we're 'supposed' to be doing. I'm not saying we're 'supposed' to be hunting wooly mammoths with flintknapped spears – since we did that for hundreds of thousands of years before the Information Age – but I'm fairly positive most of the science points to sedentary lifestyles (combined with the 'existential dread' that the media uses to make its bread) are not what we're 'supposed' to be doing if we want to be happy as individuals. And I think widespread individual happiness probably contributes to a healthier society overall. Not arguing for sticking our heads in the sand or doing away with computers – just making the point that moderation – even heavy moderation – is probably A Good Thing for kids and humans in general.
danielvaughn 3y ago
Just imagine being an adolescent with this technology. I feel lucky that I was in my 20's by the time smart phones were created, and I'd be extremely surprised if they weren't responsible for a decline in mental health for kids.

by 23B1 3y ago

Clubber 3y ago

>it's the addictive content readily accessible therein. That should be questioned too. We don't know what's causing it. It might be the parents consuming of polarizing / doomsday politics effecting their interaction with the kids. It could be parents forced to work more because of costs. It could be the after effects of Covid. It could be that therapy became normalized and kids were always this way, but it's much more accounted for because they aren't afraid to tell people about it. It could be a lot of things at the same time.

IceHegel 3y ago
> We don’t know what’s causing it. Speculatively, I’d say it’s social media for girls (instagram, tiktok, snapchat) and porn for boys.
- dumpsterlid 3y ago
  [dead]
- trinix912 3y ago
  As if it’s impossible for boys to have body image issues because of all those Instagram models.
  - hibikir 3y ago
    Oh, boys can absolutely have image problems for looking at instagram models. In general, comparing oneself to the photoshopped version of people that are already in the top percentage in the good looks lottery is bad, regardless of gender. However, statistically speaking, boys just don't follow male instagram models in the first place. Far fewer install instagram in the first place, and if they do, it's not to get fashion tips and lifestyle advice models. Those that do are probably going to end up very insecure too. But in practice, boys don't do that, and therefore the practical levels of harm are lower. It's just like how teenagers that have friends that binge drink end up having more alcohol related problems. It's not that the alcohol itself is more dangerous, physically speaking, the more friends that drink the teenager has. It's that if their friends are binge drinkers, chances are higher that they themselves will binge drink too.
    - 23B1 3y ago
      Also I don't think it's 'kosher' amongst the male species to admit and seek mental health assistance either – so THAT correlation could be an important one.
- joshspankit 3y ago
  You might be surprised by how much boys are affected by social media

IceHegel 3y ago

There was a period of time from about 2011-2013 where it felt like many parents would complain about everyone being on their phone. Then they started using them too and stopped complaining.

naravara 3y ago
If anything parents are as bad or worse than the kids now. I'm about 40 and am constantly having to remind my own parents to put the phone away and be more present with their grandkids when they come to visit.
- Loughla 3y ago
  Went to a high school graduation this weekend. Because we were running behind, we were in the top of the seats, right in the middle. It was nice because we could see absolutely everything, and I did notice a trend - In the crowd, the 50+ year olds were the ones getting their phones out to dick around during the ceremony. Youth would get the phone out to take pictures, post quickly on socials, then put the phone away. Older folks would take a picture, post on socials, scroll through socials, check the news or whatever, then take another picture and repeat.
  - itronitron 3y ago
    My children are around that age, which means I recall going to young children's birthday parties at the age (5 to 8) where about half the parents would stick around for the whole party, but they would all be scrolling through their smartphones. This was probably around 2010.
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    I've always found most peoples' fascination with their screens a bit uncanny, but I have to say that I do understand anything that could pass the time at a graduation ceremony. I skipped my own college ceremony, and my only regret to this day is that I didn't apply for tickets because people were re-selling them for decent money.
- 3y ago

raincole 3y ago

The "obvious" correlations are the ones that need to be questioned the most.

peteradio 3y ago
Are we certain punching ourselves in the face is causing the bruising? It's almost too obvious and therefore necessitates extra scrutiny.
dudeofea 3y ago
I'm glad I'm on the "right" "side" of "history"
23B1 3y ago
"I understand you think the water is wet and the sky is blue – but what does wet mean? What does blue mean?" Great questions for interesting philosophical and academic debate. Silly questions for deciding how to, say, raise kids.
- Tokkemon 3y ago
  Way to totally miss the point.
  - 23B1 3y ago
    How so?
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      Neither of your examples are inferring causation from correlation, they are just questions about how to define wet and blue.
      - 23B1 3y ago
        Yes, but they're obvious things that could be dissected ad nauseam in the course of academic – as opposed to pragmatic – discourse. Water is wet, sky is blue, obsessive social media use is bad. I understand this is HN and the Internet, and so niggling academic arguments are fun and all, but sometimes it's okay for the obvious to be uncontroversial.

maxehmookau 3y ago

> It's not the cellphone itself that's the problem, it's the addictive content readily accessible therein. Hard agree. My phone has revolutionised getting shit done. I have my calendar, maps for the entire planet, todo list, and so many other tools that make everyday, very average, life less of a chore. But it also has dopamine dispensers like TikTok, Facebook and Instagram that are designed to absorb as much of my time as they possibly can and expose me to as much stuff to buy as possible. Social media needs to be regulated like any other addictive substance. Just because we don't eat, smoke or snort it doesn't mean it's not just as dangerous.

makeitdouble 3y ago

By that token, humans weren't meant to get medical procedures on chronical illnesses and live up to 100+ years. What humans were meant to doesn't really help, and what long lasting impacts smart phone will have is pretty much up for debate. My view on this is, we have natural defense + evolutionary mechanisms to deal with potential exctintion events. If you really want to look at the issue at such a basic level, tell me how the human race will be decimated via the arrival of smart phones.

23B1 3y ago
I think looking at things like the speed of evolution (through the lens of neuroscience or sociology) relative to the speed of industrialization and see some pretty clear markers as to what we're 'supposed' to be doing. I'm not saying we're 'supposed' to be hunting wooly mammoths with flintknapped spears – since we did that for hundreds of thousands of years before the Information Age – but I'm fairly positive most of the science points to sedentary lifestyles (combined with the 'existential dread' that the media uses to make its bread) are not what we're 'supposed' to be doing if we want to be happy as individuals. And I think widespread individual happiness probably contributes to a healthier society overall. Not arguing for sticking our heads in the sand or doing away with computers – just making the point that moderation – even heavy moderation – is probably A Good Thing for kids and humans in general.

danielvaughn 3y ago

Just imagine being an adolescent with this technology. I feel lucky that I was in my 20's by the time smart phones were created, and I'd be extremely surprised if they weren't responsible for a decline in mental health for kids.