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As a recently disaffected Mormon, let me tell outsiders a few reasons why I think this is a huge issue. I see some saying the church can do what it wants with i
by vlunkr 3y ago
As a recently disaffected Mormon, let me tell outsiders a few reasons why I think this is a huge issue. I see some saying the church can do what it wants with it’s money, I want to explain why I don’t think it’s ok.
- members are encouraged to pay tithing before all other expenses. People are out there deciding whether to pay bills or tithing, while the church sits on this hoard. That’s hard to swallow.
- the church preaches against materialism. Any Mormon can tell you about the “great and spacious building.” It’s a story from the Book of Mormon about materialism or worldliness distracting you from finding the love of God. So what does the church do with tithing? They build an expensive shopping mall right next to their sacred temple and headquarters. What? I don’t have a problem with the mall on its own, but the irony is overwhelming.
- they own, or at least during the leak they owned, tons of stock in Facebook and other big tech. They’ve earned so much against the dangers of social media, it feels really hypocritical.
- they claim to be saving money for the Second Coming. I think this is nonsensical. There are two phases to the Second Coming, calamities/Armageddon, then Jesus comes to fix everything. You don’t need money for those. By all means, hoard emergency supplies, but what are you going to do with your Facebook stock when governments have collapsed?
- obviously, hiding behind shell companies. I expect this from businesses, not from the church who asks their members if they are “honest in their dealings with their fellow man” regularly.
- there are different ways to interpret the original revelation about tithing in the church. They have chosen the maximal version. In the Doctrine and Covenants, it says “one tenth of their interest annually.” Interest is not the same as income. It’s been alternatively interpreted as 10% of any investments, or 10% after all other expenses are paid. At one point a prophet also said that the law is only for those who have means to pay. The conveniently don’t use that quote anymore.
Anyways, this is all very fresh in my mind so these are my rantings.
- TrueGeek 3y ago"encouraged to pay tithing before all other expenses" is an understatement
- mrangle 3y agoYour complaints are moral and subjective. They don't seem to fall under the category of "huge problem". All Churches endeavor to "hoards". Not one doesn't. For a variety of good reasons. That being said, your moral complaints are valid for you. I hope that you can reconcile them or find a community that better meets you where your values are.
- vlunkr 3y agoWhen it comes to a church, all complaints are moral. If you claim to have the power of God on earth, you should expect every action you take to be viewed through that lens. I do concede that they are subjective though. And obviously many Mormons are aware of the facts and come to different conclusions than me, and I'm ok with that.
- snapplebobapple 3y agoI would come at this from a different angle in that this is just a subset of the hugely problematic tax free status of most charities, universities and churches, rather than a thing unique to mormons. Amassing a large pot of tax free money is not good for society no matter who is doing it for very obvious reasons.
- cashsterling 3y agoI would love to hear your description and explanation of "good reasons" for religious organizations to hoard money [when they are supposed to be spiritually focused].
- TallGuyShort 3y agoI mean I volunteer for a church that does a huge amount of philanthropy, and as what we do comes in waves, we store up funds when we don't have a lot of community needs. Looking at the US economy I would actually expect needs to increase for some time so I think we should be saving more than we are at the moment in anticipation. I don't trust the government to personally bail me out very well and I don't trust them to do anything better with tax revenue. Even this $100B hedge fund could be completely spent by the federal government in 6 days and a lot of that would just be servicing debt I've never agreed with carrying in the first place, or funding a military that I don't think makes the world a better place any better than my church does.
- vlunkr 3y agoThis is definitely one place where it gets morally tricky. The church has facilities and programs to run, and needs protection against economic downturn. And it's not financially wise to have a bunch of liquid cash on-hand. For me the points in my original comment push it into immoral territory.
- 2-718-281-828 3y agothey are a bunch of hypocrites is what you're saying? o.O
- alanwreath 3y ago“ they claim to be saving money for the Second Coming” - care to back up this statement?
- vlunkr 3y agoLooks it comes from the whistleblower. It's entirely possible that it's not official though. https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/02/10/sec-reportedly-probes-mormon-church-over-100-billion-investment-portfolio-allegedly-saved-for-second-coming-of-christ/?sh=534b14ce6f02 https://www.forbes.com/sites/brianbushard/2023/02/10/sec-rep....
- yencabulator 3y ago> - obviously, hiding behind shell companies. I expect this from businesses, not from the church who asks their members if they are “honest in their dealings with their fellow man” regularly. The logical conclusion is that the people controlling the church don't consider anyone outside the inner circle to be "their fellow man".