4 ms·

Is it because it's 1% who regret transitioning? And over emphasising 1% would in fact be the propaganda?

by secretsatan 3y ago

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
hersko 3y ago
[flagged]
- mschuster91 3y ago
  So what? Put them on puberty blockers, these have been used and proven safe for decades to treat precocious puberty. If they figure out they're not transgender after all, natural puberty resumes on its own. Barely anyone recommends or wants actual operations for people below 18 outside of severely suicidal scenarios - and after that... well, as long as you can pursue boob jobs, splitting your tongue or sign up to be maimed and disfigured in some far-away battlefield for the army, why should it be forbidden to transition one's genitalia?!
  - hersko 3y ago
    That's a myth, you can't just stop natural puberty and expect everything to be normal if you decide to reverse course later. These kids are being sterilized [1], many will never experience an orgasm [2]. “Every single child or adolescent who was truly blocked at Tanner Stage 2 [when hormones begin their work of advancing a child to adulthood] has never experienced orgasm. I mean, it’s really about zero.”[2] - Dr. Marci Bowers, a vaginoplasty surgeon who herself transitioned when she was 38 [1] https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389 https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-c... [2] https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-708397 https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-708397
    - mschuster91 3y ago
      That second source was written by someone with an obvious agenda of whining against political correctness [1]. As for the first source: an interesting study indeed - the question is, what weighs higher: a potential risk of inability to have an orgasm, or the very real risk of suicide attempts and successful suicides? Usually, medicine goes for "least harm". The last paragraph is particularly telling: > Laidlaw has called the Endocrine Society’s position “highly deceptive.” Most gender-dysphoric children experience other psychological or familial problems or pre-existing trauma or autism, he said. “These kids, given time and compassionate care, should be able to become comfortable in their bodies without the harmful interventions of hormones and surgeries.” The core issue is: access to mental health care or getting children removed from abusive families outside of actual, massive physical violence is incredibly rare. CPS and its worldwide equivalents often barely have the resources to keep up with children being sexually and physically abused, and life in shelters or being constantly shuffled around foster families is a hell on its own - not to mention moving out of strongly "conservative" areas or out of the school district to escape bullies is often financially impossible for way too many families. So again, from a harm reduction perspective, it's obvious that providing puberty blockers and, later on, a way to transition is the more realistic and better outcome way. Besides, even when one assumes the statement of "most" trans people having had prior issues as true (which I haven't seen data yet except a correlation with autism [2]), there will also be a lot of people with absolutely zero history of abuse or other issues beyond being trans who will be trans, and so you need a framework in place to help these as well. [1] https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-720155 https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-720155 [2] https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/EBA481AA354DA47D8C3F88AE5B9BD6BC/S0924933800001619a.pdf/autistic_traits_in_individuals_selfdefining_as_transgender_or_nonbinary.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c...
    - a_shovel 3y ago
      Enough oversharing trans people show up on my Twitter timeline for me to know that quite a lot of them are perfectly capable of orgasm.
- detaro 3y ago
  The vast majority of people receiving gender-affirming care are not children.
  - hersko 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    Which means some of them are children
PurpleRamen 3y ago
1% is just an estimation. And it seems not a very good one[1]. And overall, the question is whether it will remain as it is now, or whether it will change with society and science for better or worse. Like always, we know far too little on this domain. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition#Occurrence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition#Occurrence

Is it because it's 1% who regret transitioning? And over emphasising 1% would in fact be the propaganda?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

hersko 3y ago

[flagged]

mschuster91 3y ago
So what? Put them on puberty blockers, these have been used and proven safe for decades to treat precocious puberty. If they figure out they're not transgender after all, natural puberty resumes on its own. Barely anyone recommends or wants actual operations for people below 18 outside of severely suicidal scenarios - and after that... well, as long as you can pursue boob jobs, splitting your tongue or sign up to be maimed and disfigured in some far-away battlefield for the army, why should it be forbidden to transition one's genitalia?!
- hersko 3y ago
  That's a myth, you can't just stop natural puberty and expect everything to be normal if you decide to reverse course later. These kids are being sterilized [1], many will never experience an orgasm [2]. “Every single child or adolescent who was truly blocked at Tanner Stage 2 [when hormones begin their work of advancing a child to adulthood] has never experienced orgasm. I mean, it’s really about zero.”[2] - Dr. Marci Bowers, a vaginoplasty surgeon who herself transitioned when she was 38 [1] https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-can-last-a-lifetime-1617220389 https://wng.org/roundups/study-effects-of-puberty-blockers-c... [2] https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-708397 https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-708397
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    That second source was written by someone with an obvious agenda of whining against political correctness [1]. As for the first source: an interesting study indeed - the question is, what weighs higher: a potential risk of inability to have an orgasm, or the very real risk of suicide attempts and successful suicides? Usually, medicine goes for "least harm". The last paragraph is particularly telling: > Laidlaw has called the Endocrine Society’s position “highly deceptive.” Most gender-dysphoric children experience other psychological or familial problems or pre-existing trauma or autism, he said. “These kids, given time and compassionate care, should be able to become comfortable in their bodies without the harmful interventions of hormones and surgeries.” The core issue is: access to mental health care or getting children removed from abusive families outside of actual, massive physical violence is incredibly rare. CPS and its worldwide equivalents often barely have the resources to keep up with children being sexually and physically abused, and life in shelters or being constantly shuffled around foster families is a hell on its own - not to mention moving out of strongly "conservative" areas or out of the school district to escape bullies is often financially impossible for way too many families. So again, from a harm reduction perspective, it's obvious that providing puberty blockers and, later on, a way to transition is the more realistic and better outcome way. Besides, even when one assumes the statement of "most" trans people having had prior issues as true (which I haven't seen data yet except a correlation with autism [2]), there will also be a lot of people with absolutely zero history of abuse or other issues beyond being trans who will be trans, and so you need a framework in place to help these as well. [1] https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-720155 https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-720155 [2] https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/EBA481AA354DA47D8C3F88AE5B9BD6BC/S0924933800001619a.pdf/autistic_traits_in_individuals_selfdefining_as_transgender_or_nonbinary.pdf https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/c...
  - a_shovel 3y ago
    Enough oversharing trans people show up on my Twitter timeline for me to know that quite a lot of them are perfectly capable of orgasm.
detaro 3y ago
The vast majority of people receiving gender-affirming care are not children.
- hersko 3y ago
  [flagged]
- edgyquant 3y ago
  Which means some of them are children

PurpleRamen 3y ago

1% is just an estimation. And it seems not a very good one[1]. And overall, the question is whether it will remain as it is now, or whether it will change with society and science for better or worse. Like always, we know far too little on this domain. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition#Occurrence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition#Occurrence