11 ms·

Anxious dogs, like anxious people, need help managing and reducing distress

69 points by zuno 3y ago

BigCryo 3y ago
With dogs approaching the quasi religious status, quasi sacred status of sacred cow here in America, how long before laws are passed mandating annual checkups for dogs?
- osobo 3y ago
  Some manner of obligation to care for your pet (any pet) should exist. This has nothing to do with religion and is all about honoring the commitment you entered when you decided to take care of an animal.
  - BigCryo 3y ago
    Okay, I see it okay yeah we always have room for one more law. There's always more room
    - criddell 3y ago
      Osobo said nothing about laws.
  - subjectsigma 3y ago
    I have no idea how laws got brought into this conversation but some people absolutely do worship their dogs, as someone who doesn’t really like animals and is highly allergic to pet dander, it’s frankly quite annoying and insane. I was bitten by a dog once and the owners immediately started trying to explain to me why it was actually my fault that I, standing there minding my own business, made the dog bite me! They eventually remembered that I got bit and asked if I was hurt. I lived in an apartment building next to some people with a new puppy who barked at night - when I complained to them about it I got an earful about how its ok for them to violate noise ordinances and disturb my sleep, it’s a puppy, it can’t control itself, how could I possibly be so mean!? I refused an invitation to a party once because they had a lot of dogs and I’m very allergic - I was told I was being super rude and that I should just pop some meds and get over it. I asked them why they expected me to make myself miserable for the dogs sake when they could just kennel it for the weekend? I own fish - the amount of times someone has told me that my pet is “lame” or “silly” or “boring” and that I should have gotten a dog is ridiculous. Like fuck off. TL;DR Dog owners can be really obnoxious and self-righteous. There’s a mutual understanding that if people can’t control their children, they are bad parents. But not being able to control your dog is for some reason much more accepted.
    - BigCryo 3y ago
      You have no idea how laws got brought into the conversation? Well if there's a law requiring dogs to be physically examined every year and that would be what you call a law... Also people are bringing in stuff about registration and shots and so forth. Those are also called laws
      - subjectsigma 3y ago
        I was confused because no such laws are advocated for nor even suggested in the article, which is what you were replying to in your original comment. It seems like you literally just invented the idea just to be mad about
- tartuffe78 3y ago
  Are they not? Dog licenses require rabies shots, and vets require checkups for shots at least around here.
  - doubled112 3y ago
    Registration and shots are mandatory everywhere I’ve lived too. Sounds mandated to me. I’ve always assumed it has nothing to do with me or my dog, but is to protect others from my dog.
    - rascul 3y ago
      Laws about registration and shots vary a lot in the US from one state or municipality to the next.
- the-printer 3y ago
  And health insurance providers package additional coverage for veterinary expenses with certain plans.
goda90 3y ago
My older dog was a stray as a puppy and we give her fluoxetine(commonly called Prozac) to help with anxiety. Even after years of training we have issues with trying to walk her during daylight because she crumbles in fear. Our other dog being present gives her some confidence but they both also react more to other dogs when they think they have to protect the other, so it's a daily struggle.
- f6v 3y ago
  Vets give Prozac to dogs?
  - doubled112 3y ago
    Puppy Prozac is apparently very common.
  - inconceivable 3y ago
    dogs can take all sorts of human prescriptions, including allergy meds and pain meds. also OTC like benadryl. it's kind of mind blowing. of course, some meds will simply kill them, so uh, do your research.
  - goda90 3y ago
    Of all the medications that we've gotten for our dogs over the years, the Prozac has also been one of the cheapest. That's without any pet insurance.
  - sidewndr46 3y ago
    You can legally give a dog or most animals pretty much anything so long as you remain in compliance with prevention of animal cruelty laws. You can get medication at a farmer's market or similar that'd be highly regulated for human consumption, so long as it is marked appropriately.
  - largelanguage 3y ago
    You'd be surprised. There was an old story where a pet chimp went berserk mauled its owner and they found xanax in its system.
paganel 3y ago
Treating dogs like humans is very detrimental to the dogs, more than detrimental, actively harmful. I'm ok when seeing adults doing that to their kids (i.e. treating said kids as grown-ups), after all they're their kids and I don't have children of my own, but when I see the same sort of behaviour being transplanted to handling dogs (or pets, more generally), then I get really angry. Again, dogs, and animals, are not humans, applying "human-like treatment" to them means harming said dogs and said animals. And more to the point of the article, as the owner of a very sensitive Border Collie myself the "secret" of avoiding separation anxiety for your dog is not to treat your every home departure like you're heading off to the Antarctic, treat it like it's nothing, like you're just going to get rid of the trash. No matter if you're gone for 5 minutes or for 4-5 hours. This applies for both leaving the house and getting back to the house.
- inconceivable 3y ago
  over the years i've trained some anxiety out of my rescue dog by saying "okay i'll be back" every time i leave home without him. even just to take out the trash or get the mail. he now knows that it means to not get up and start pacing anxiously to go with me or to try to follow me out the door. usually he just goes in his easychair (it's turned into his doggie daybed, basically) or lays down in the sunlight. my guest bath is also his little cave, since it's usually dark and the floor is cool. i've seen him on camera just hang out in these spots until i get back. paired with the standard issue "let's go for a walk" or "let's go outside" it seems to really communicate what exactly is going on so he isn't confused. i've also added "peepee?" to ask if he wants to pee without making him think we're going for a long walk. this also works with food related words ... it's still kind of crazy to me he actually knows what i'm saying and will react according to what he actually wants at the moment. i just have to cycle through the words.
  - paganel 3y ago
    A short "okay i'll be back" is more than ok, I'm doing it with my dog also from time to time, I was thinking mostly of the people that cuddle their dog before they leave and just as they return home, that isn't healthy for the dog, especially if he's still a puppy.
Tade0 3y ago
> If evidence suggests that many dogs, like many humans, misbehave because they are struggling with emotions and anxiety, why do so many pet owners and trainers look to punishment as the solution, rather than addressing the emotions directly? Same reason why so many people do the same to children - they're set in their views and are unwilling accept that they might be wrong. Also, it's less work (at lesst in the short term). All the more reason to continue.
- Ensorceled 3y ago
  > Same reason why so many people do the same to children I'd extend that to all humans and all animals. Many people can't even wrap their heads around NOT using punishment to control behaviour and react very negatively to the idea of treatment or interventions that, in their mind, look like "rewarding" the "bad" behaviour.
- mikepurvis 3y ago
  As a parent who has had to do a bunch of this work, I think a big missing piece in much of the dialogue around it is understanding how exactly the “gentle” style of engagement isn’t just indulging, tolerating, excusing, and even rewarding bad behaviour. The official word is that adopting a gentle and emotionally aware stance has to be paired with a strong sense of boundaries, but it’s often very unclear how to differentiate between which part of the response to a given situation should be the boundary (“we don’t speak like that in this family; I won’t be responding until you talk to me in a respectful way”) vs the emotional deep dive (“it sounds like you’re processing some big feelings right now, let’s talk about what’s going on for you”). Instead of engaging with the truly challenging parts of the approach, a lot of advocates model kind of what’s in the parent post— condescension, dismissal, and an assumption that the other party is simply unable or unwilling to learn how to do something that’s obviously superior.
  - kevviiinn 3y ago
    I think what the OP was getting at is perfectly exemplified in this comment. A person who is set in their ways and unable to comprehend the emotional state of another being, just viewing the resulting behaviors as purely "bad"
bloopernova 3y ago
I wonder if this differs from wolves? I sometimes think about just how much we have evolved dogs to mirror us in so many different ways. In other words: by selecting for responsiveness to human emotions, to what degree have we made dogs' brains more like our own? Now I'm going to cuddle my pup Henry.
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  > Now I'm going to cuddle my pup Henry. If you're American there is a big chance that you're using the word pup for a dog of any age. This in itself is a tell-tale sign of the way many people - especially those who are wont to write or speak about their dogs in public places - think about them, as permanent juveniles who will never "grow up".
  - FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
    > permanent juveniles who will never "grow up". The removal of testes/ovaries before puberty has something to do with that. Go to the third world and look at the dogs in the street. They have teats for nursing puppies and balls for making them, all plain as day. What dogs look like in developed countries isn't natural.
    - doytch 3y ago
      > look at the dogs in the street I wonder why there are so many dogs in the street ;-) There's nowhere where dogs are "natural." They're a species that was bred to the whims and desires of humans, almost always to the detriment of their evolutionary fitness.
  - bloopernova 3y ago
    He's 11 months old tomorrow. I guess I could have said "young dog" instead. As for "pup" think of it like a term of endearment similar to sweetie, babe, honey, etc etc.
misja111 3y ago
I love dogs, but aren't there bigger issues in this world that we should focus on first? Millions of children on this planet are malnourished or suffering because of wars, climate change or just bad government. Is it ethical to pay a fortune for magnetic brain stimulation of your dog, if somewhere else in the world several people's lives could be saved with that money?
- rowanG077 3y ago
  This is whataboutism at its finest. You aren't wrong that there are other problems. Do you really think that a pet owner taking better care of their dog instead is going to make an impact on child hunger thousands of miles away?
  - rhacker 3y ago
    If everyone that read your comment decided to donate, it might.
    - rowanG077 3y ago
      No chance. Donating is not a solution to world hunger.
      - pfannkuchen 3y ago
        It could be if the money goes towards helping to build food production systems as opposed to buying food. I wonder if charities do this? Buying food just kicks the can down the road for sure.
        bityard 3y ago
        That won't help either. The problem in those areas is local and national corruption. If you bring farming equipment into an impoverished third-world community and teach them how to use it, the local warlord/drug gang just comes in after you've left and steals or destroys the farming equipment. It's an unfortunate fact of reality that foreign aid, though very well-intentioned, benefits the rulers and generals of corrupt governments more than it benefits their citizens. See "The Dictator's Handbook" by Mesquita and Smith.
Katie4427 3y ago
[flagged]
bradleyjg 3y ago
Is there a direct connection between falling birth rates and treating animals as if they were beloved children? It seems like these animals evolutionary strategy is akin to that of the cuckoo bird.
- jacksnipe 3y ago
  The only evolutionary strategy at play here is dog breeders. Also, it’s important not to overly anthropomorphize evolution. It’s not as though animals are choosing their evolutionary strategy, so I find this language misleading.
  - bradleyjg 3y ago
    Is it important to not overly anthropomorphize dogs and cats? Because that’s far more common than doing so for evolution.
- nordsieck 3y ago
  > It seems like these animals evolutionary strategy is akin to that of the cuckoo bird. Animals have a dual strategy. They can be part of the family or they can be a working animal. > Is there a direct connection between falling birth rates and treating animals as if they were beloved children? I could see treating animals as children being caused by falling birth rates. The opposite seems unlikely, since people have kept pets for a very long time.
- ZunarJ5 3y ago
  The film Children of Men missed this part from the book, which is regrettable because it was such an interesting little world building piece.
  - pseudalopex 3y ago
    The film showed pets everywhere and advertisements on transit for a pet fashion spring collection.
    - 3y ago
nahnahg 3y ago
[dead]
gadders 3y ago
A lot of this just sounds like... dog training? Gradually getting them used to things with positive reinforcement. I do think though that dog's can pick up on their owners emotions. If you're thinking "Oh no, I'm going to leave Fido alone for three hours I'm really worried he's going to rip the house up or be really upset when I'm gone." rather than "I'm just nipping out. Fido sleeps most of the day anyway and will be fine." then the dog will pick up on that and become anxious.
zpeti 3y ago
Relevant: https://youtu.be/LoEotny5_jI?t=95 https://youtu.be/LoEotny5_jI?t=95
felipesabino 3y ago
This is very coincidental with PJ Vogt new podcast "Search Engine", they released a preview episode in the last days titled "How Sad Are Monkeys In The Zoo" [1] that tackles this problem of animal emotions. I was very surprised to learn that most animals in Zoos are on constant anti-depression and anti-anxiety prescriptions. https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/welcome-to-search-engine https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/welcome-to-search-engine Edit: typo
JodieBenitez 3y ago
But... on the internet nobody knows you're a dog.
FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
Dogs are pack animals who are kept as isolated individuals alone in apartments by workers who are away all day. No shit they're anxious.
rcme 3y ago
There is a great book on dog training called How to Behave So Your Dog Behaves by Sophia Yin. The basic premise is that all animals, including humans, are "trained" 100% of the time. That is to say, there is no explicit training time vs. non-training time. Each time an animal does anything, they either get a positive or negative reward. E.g. if a dog barks and you pay attention to it, then the dog learns to bark for your attention. A corollary to this is that it's very hard to get a dog to unlearn something once it has learned it, especially if you can't remove the positive reward. For many dogs, behaviors like barking, chewing, and digging are self-soothing. That is to say the dog feels rewarded just for performing the actions when stressed. For this reason, battling entrenched separation anxiety is very difficult and takes many months, as the author experienced. I wish this information was more well known. Dogs, as puppies, are very malleable, and you can raise a well adjusted dog pretty easily provided you're willing to put in a lot of work for the first few months of life. Once dogs reach adulthood, things become much harder as you're having to unlearn entrenched behaviors in addition to teaching new ones. This is especially important to understand if you're considering rescuing a dog. Rescuing adult dogs is noble, but you're basically playing the lottery with potential problematic behavioral issues.
johnea 3y ago
Maybe what dogs need is control of their own species? Just stop manufacturing them...
Katie4427 3y ago
[dead]

69 points by zuno 3y ago

With dogs approaching the quasi religious status, quasi sacred status of sacred cow here in America, how long before laws are passed mandating annual checkups for dogs?

osobo 3y ago
Some manner of obligation to care for your pet (any pet) should exist. This has nothing to do with religion and is all about honoring the commitment you entered when you decided to take care of an animal.
- BigCryo 3y ago
  Okay, I see it okay yeah we always have room for one more law. There's always more room
  - criddell 3y ago
    Osobo said nothing about laws.
- subjectsigma 3y ago
  I have no idea how laws got brought into this conversation but some people absolutely do worship their dogs, as someone who doesn’t really like animals and is highly allergic to pet dander, it’s frankly quite annoying and insane. I was bitten by a dog once and the owners immediately started trying to explain to me why it was actually my fault that I, standing there minding my own business, made the dog bite me! They eventually remembered that I got bit and asked if I was hurt. I lived in an apartment building next to some people with a new puppy who barked at night - when I complained to them about it I got an earful about how its ok for them to violate noise ordinances and disturb my sleep, it’s a puppy, it can’t control itself, how could I possibly be so mean!? I refused an invitation to a party once because they had a lot of dogs and I’m very allergic - I was told I was being super rude and that I should just pop some meds and get over it. I asked them why they expected me to make myself miserable for the dogs sake when they could just kennel it for the weekend? I own fish - the amount of times someone has told me that my pet is “lame” or “silly” or “boring” and that I should have gotten a dog is ridiculous. Like fuck off. TL;DR Dog owners can be really obnoxious and self-righteous. There’s a mutual understanding that if people can’t control their children, they are bad parents. But not being able to control your dog is for some reason much more accepted.
  - BigCryo 3y ago
    You have no idea how laws got brought into the conversation? Well if there's a law requiring dogs to be physically examined every year and that would be what you call a law... Also people are bringing in stuff about registration and shots and so forth. Those are also called laws
    - subjectsigma 3y ago
      I was confused because no such laws are advocated for nor even suggested in the article, which is what you were replying to in your original comment. It seems like you literally just invented the idea just to be mad about
tartuffe78 3y ago
Are they not? Dog licenses require rabies shots, and vets require checkups for shots at least around here.
- doubled112 3y ago
  Registration and shots are mandatory everywhere I’ve lived too. Sounds mandated to me. I’ve always assumed it has nothing to do with me or my dog, but is to protect others from my dog.
  - rascul 3y ago
    Laws about registration and shots vary a lot in the US from one state or municipality to the next.
the-printer 3y ago
And health insurance providers package additional coverage for veterinary expenses with certain plans.

goda90 3y ago

My older dog was a stray as a puppy and we give her fluoxetine(commonly called Prozac) to help with anxiety. Even after years of training we have issues with trying to walk her during daylight because she crumbles in fear. Our other dog being present gives her some confidence but they both also react more to other dogs when they think they have to protect the other, so it's a daily struggle.

f6v 3y ago
Vets give Prozac to dogs?
- doubled112 3y ago
  Puppy Prozac is apparently very common.
- inconceivable 3y ago
  dogs can take all sorts of human prescriptions, including allergy meds and pain meds. also OTC like benadryl. it's kind of mind blowing. of course, some meds will simply kill them, so uh, do your research.
- goda90 3y ago
  Of all the medications that we've gotten for our dogs over the years, the Prozac has also been one of the cheapest. That's without any pet insurance.
- sidewndr46 3y ago
  You can legally give a dog or most animals pretty much anything so long as you remain in compliance with prevention of animal cruelty laws. You can get medication at a farmer's market or similar that'd be highly regulated for human consumption, so long as it is marked appropriately.
- largelanguage 3y ago
  You'd be surprised. There was an old story where a pet chimp went berserk mauled its owner and they found xanax in its system.

paganel 3y ago

Treating dogs like humans is very detrimental to the dogs, more than detrimental, actively harmful. I'm ok when seeing adults doing that to their kids (i.e. treating said kids as grown-ups), after all they're their kids and I don't have children of my own, but when I see the same sort of behaviour being transplanted to handling dogs (or pets, more generally), then I get really angry. Again, dogs, and animals, are not humans, applying "human-like treatment" to them means harming said dogs and said animals. And more to the point of the article, as the owner of a very sensitive Border Collie myself the "secret" of avoiding separation anxiety for your dog is not to treat your every home departure like you're heading off to the Antarctic, treat it like it's nothing, like you're just going to get rid of the trash. No matter if you're gone for 5 minutes or for 4-5 hours. This applies for both leaving the house and getting back to the house.

inconceivable 3y ago
over the years i've trained some anxiety out of my rescue dog by saying "okay i'll be back" every time i leave home without him. even just to take out the trash or get the mail. he now knows that it means to not get up and start pacing anxiously to go with me or to try to follow me out the door. usually he just goes in his easychair (it's turned into his doggie daybed, basically) or lays down in the sunlight. my guest bath is also his little cave, since it's usually dark and the floor is cool. i've seen him on camera just hang out in these spots until i get back. paired with the standard issue "let's go for a walk" or "let's go outside" it seems to really communicate what exactly is going on so he isn't confused. i've also added "peepee?" to ask if he wants to pee without making him think we're going for a long walk. this also works with food related words ... it's still kind of crazy to me he actually knows what i'm saying and will react according to what he actually wants at the moment. i just have to cycle through the words.
- paganel 3y ago
  A short "okay i'll be back" is more than ok, I'm doing it with my dog also from time to time, I was thinking mostly of the people that cuddle their dog before they leave and just as they return home, that isn't healthy for the dog, especially if he's still a puppy.

Tade0 3y ago

> If evidence suggests that many dogs, like many humans, misbehave because they are struggling with emotions and anxiety, why do so many pet owners and trainers look to punishment as the solution, rather than addressing the emotions directly? Same reason why so many people do the same to children - they're set in their views and are unwilling accept that they might be wrong. Also, it's less work (at lesst in the short term). All the more reason to continue.

Ensorceled 3y ago
> Same reason why so many people do the same to children I'd extend that to all humans and all animals. Many people can't even wrap their heads around NOT using punishment to control behaviour and react very negatively to the idea of treatment or interventions that, in their mind, look like "rewarding" the "bad" behaviour.
mikepurvis 3y ago
As a parent who has had to do a bunch of this work, I think a big missing piece in much of the dialogue around it is understanding how exactly the “gentle” style of engagement isn’t just indulging, tolerating, excusing, and even rewarding bad behaviour. The official word is that adopting a gentle and emotionally aware stance has to be paired with a strong sense of boundaries, but it’s often very unclear how to differentiate between which part of the response to a given situation should be the boundary (“we don’t speak like that in this family; I won’t be responding until you talk to me in a respectful way”) vs the emotional deep dive (“it sounds like you’re processing some big feelings right now, let’s talk about what’s going on for you”). Instead of engaging with the truly challenging parts of the approach, a lot of advocates model kind of what’s in the parent post— condescension, dismissal, and an assumption that the other party is simply unable or unwilling to learn how to do something that’s obviously superior.
- kevviiinn 3y ago
  I think what the OP was getting at is perfectly exemplified in this comment. A person who is set in their ways and unable to comprehend the emotional state of another being, just viewing the resulting behaviors as purely "bad"

bloopernova 3y ago

I wonder if this differs from wolves? I sometimes think about just how much we have evolved dogs to mirror us in so many different ways. In other words: by selecting for responsiveness to human emotions, to what degree have we made dogs' brains more like our own? Now I'm going to cuddle my pup Henry.

the_third_wave 3y ago
> Now I'm going to cuddle my pup Henry. If you're American there is a big chance that you're using the word pup for a dog of any age. This in itself is a tell-tale sign of the way many people - especially those who are wont to write or speak about their dogs in public places - think about them, as permanent juveniles who will never "grow up".
- FooBarBizBazz 3y ago
  > permanent juveniles who will never "grow up". The removal of testes/ovaries before puberty has something to do with that. Go to the third world and look at the dogs in the street. They have teats for nursing puppies and balls for making them, all plain as day. What dogs look like in developed countries isn't natural.
  - doytch 3y ago
    > look at the dogs in the street I wonder why there are so many dogs in the street ;-) There's nowhere where dogs are "natural." They're a species that was bred to the whims and desires of humans, almost always to the detriment of their evolutionary fitness.
- bloopernova 3y ago
  He's 11 months old tomorrow. I guess I could have said "young dog" instead. As for "pup" think of it like a term of endearment similar to sweetie, babe, honey, etc etc.

misja111 3y ago

I love dogs, but aren't there bigger issues in this world that we should focus on first? Millions of children on this planet are malnourished or suffering because of wars, climate change or just bad government. Is it ethical to pay a fortune for magnetic brain stimulation of your dog, if somewhere else in the world several people's lives could be saved with that money?

rowanG077 3y ago
This is whataboutism at its finest. You aren't wrong that there are other problems. Do you really think that a pet owner taking better care of their dog instead is going to make an impact on child hunger thousands of miles away?
- rhacker 3y ago
  If everyone that read your comment decided to donate, it might.
  - rowanG077 3y ago
    No chance. Donating is not a solution to world hunger.
    - pfannkuchen 3y ago
      It could be if the money goes towards helping to build food production systems as opposed to buying food. I wonder if charities do this? Buying food just kicks the can down the road for sure.
      - bityard 3y ago
        That won't help either. The problem in those areas is local and national corruption. If you bring farming equipment into an impoverished third-world community and teach them how to use it, the local warlord/drug gang just comes in after you've left and steals or destroys the farming equipment. It's an unfortunate fact of reality that foreign aid, though very well-intentioned, benefits the rulers and generals of corrupt governments more than it benefits their citizens. See "The Dictator's Handbook" by Mesquita and Smith.

Katie4427 3y ago

[flagged]

bradleyjg 3y ago

Is there a direct connection between falling birth rates and treating animals as if they were beloved children? It seems like these animals evolutionary strategy is akin to that of the cuckoo bird.

jacksnipe 3y ago
The only evolutionary strategy at play here is dog breeders. Also, it’s important not to overly anthropomorphize evolution. It’s not as though animals are choosing their evolutionary strategy, so I find this language misleading.
- bradleyjg 3y ago
  Is it important to not overly anthropomorphize dogs and cats? Because that’s far more common than doing so for evolution.
nordsieck 3y ago
> It seems like these animals evolutionary strategy is akin to that of the cuckoo bird. Animals have a dual strategy. They can be part of the family or they can be a working animal. > Is there a direct connection between falling birth rates and treating animals as if they were beloved children? I could see treating animals as children being caused by falling birth rates. The opposite seems unlikely, since people have kept pets for a very long time.
ZunarJ5 3y ago
The film Children of Men missed this part from the book, which is regrettable because it was such an interesting little world building piece.
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  The film showed pets everywhere and advertisements on transit for a pet fashion spring collection.
  - 3y ago

nahnahg 3y ago

[dead]

gadders 3y ago

A lot of this just sounds like... dog training? Gradually getting them used to things with positive reinforcement. I do think though that dog's can pick up on their owners emotions. If you're thinking "Oh no, I'm going to leave Fido alone for three hours I'm really worried he's going to rip the house up or be really upset when I'm gone." rather than "I'm just nipping out. Fido sleeps most of the day anyway and will be fine." then the dog will pick up on that and become anxious.

zpeti 3y ago

Relevant: https://youtu.be/LoEotny5_jI?t=95 https://youtu.be/LoEotny5_jI?t=95

felipesabino 3y ago

This is very coincidental with PJ Vogt new podcast "Search Engine", they released a preview episode in the last days titled "How Sad Are Monkeys In The Zoo" [1] that tackles this problem of animal emotions. I was very surprised to learn that most animals in Zoos are on constant anti-depression and anti-anxiety prescriptions. https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/welcome-to-search-engine https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/welcome-to-search-engine Edit: typo

JodieBenitez 3y ago

But... on the internet nobody knows you're a dog.

FooBarBizBazz 3y ago

Dogs are pack animals who are kept as isolated individuals alone in apartments by workers who are away all day. No shit they're anxious.

rcme 3y ago

There is a great book on dog training called How to Behave So Your Dog Behaves by Sophia Yin. The basic premise is that all animals, including humans, are "trained" 100% of the time. That is to say, there is no explicit training time vs. non-training time. Each time an animal does anything, they either get a positive or negative reward. E.g. if a dog barks and you pay attention to it, then the dog learns to bark for your attention. A corollary to this is that it's very hard to get a dog to unlearn something once it has learned it, especially if you can't remove the positive reward. For many dogs, behaviors like barking, chewing, and digging are self-soothing. That is to say the dog feels rewarded just for performing the actions when stressed. For this reason, battling entrenched separation anxiety is very difficult and takes many months, as the author experienced. I wish this information was more well known. Dogs, as puppies, are very malleable, and you can raise a well adjusted dog pretty easily provided you're willing to put in a lot of work for the first few months of life. Once dogs reach adulthood, things become much harder as you're having to unlearn entrenched behaviors in addition to teaching new ones. This is especially important to understand if you're considering rescuing a dog. Rescuing adult dogs is noble, but you're basically playing the lottery with potential problematic behavioral issues.

johnea 3y ago

Maybe what dogs need is control of their own species? Just stop manufacturing them...

Katie4427 3y ago

[dead]