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It's really not terrible. America invented the TV and Zenith, the last American TV company, was sold to LG over a decade ago. Not many cried when IBM sold it'

by uuilly 18y ago

It's really not terrible. America invented the TV and Zenith, the last American TV company, was sold to LG over a decade ago. Not many cried when IBM sold it's laptop division to Lenovo either. Americans just aren't great at manufacturing. PG wrote about this a long time ago here: http://paulgraham.com/usa.html http://paulgraham.com/usa.html It's not sad to pass the torch. The car is 100 years old. It's time to do something new. We should be focused on innovation not on some notion that it's our god given right to have American cars. As of this writing there is an interview with Elon Musk of Telsa Motors at the bottom of the news.yc page. That should be the future of American cars. I heard that the Tesla engineers had a week long sit down w/ the Volt engineers. The word was that the Volt guys were an embarrassment and that they couldn't answer simple questions about their batteries. Chevy can't build a simple gas powered car that can go over 60k miles w/o having all the buttons fall off the dashboard. There is no way they're going to build a decent Prius competitor. They had a good run, let them die.

ssharp 18y ago
I don't think Paul Graham's analysis of the US auto industry is accurate at all. Toyota is the number one manufacturer of automobiles right now and outside of the Lexus brand, none of their designs are significantly more stylish than any GM product. Where Toyota was able to flank America was on quality. That advantage is pretty much over at this point as U.S. automakers have made huge strides in initial quality over the past several years and have implemented quality procedures on par with Toyota. In terms of style, Europe is well ahead of the U.S. but that is how they differentiate themselves. European cars are more expensive across the board than Japanese & U.S. If you look at the styling of Japanese and Korean cars, you're not going to see much of anything better than what GM and Ford are doing, yet Toyota, Hyundai, etc. are not having the difficulties that GM is having. Where GM is failing is in two things: marketing (mainly positioning and products) and labor. GM workers are making a lot more than Toyota assembly workers, especially those that have been around a long time. This problem is fixable with cooperation from the UAW but it's not going to be easy and a lot of buyouts will be necessary. The next problem with GM is that they failed to forecast the markets. They largely ignored the compact market, were behind the curve on crossovers, and didn't put enough money into their sedans. They put all their eggs in one basket with trucks & SUVs. Those vehicle sales were dropping off even before gas was $4/gallon. While their sedans have caught up to the Japanese in real terms, they still have a serious image problem and are still viewed as inferior. I haven't seen much advertising that really addresses these concerns. You can't reposition yourself overnight with advertising and you definitely cannot reposition yourself overnight with new/improved products but GM is on the right track. There are a lot of other macroeconomic conditions that get involved if GM does or does not receive bailout money but if they do get it, I don't think it will be wasted.
sown 18y ago
I'd feel better about an analysis from an expert on manufacturing and so forth, which I get the impression neither you, pg or me are. I dunno about throwing "innovation" around on cars; I think people use that word without caution or really thinking about what it means. When I grew up the nearest stop light was 20 miles away; cars were the only way to get around. Even now, living in Mountain View it's a hassle living without a car. Everywhere I've lived up until now was a huge hassle without a car, partly because it was so remote. A very large segment of the US lives like this and frankly, I don't like the idea of sharing a bus seat with strangers, waiting on trains, etc. I like the idea of automated cars as public transit and so forth but we shouldn't throw stuff out because it is old. The chair is lord only knows how old and just like I need to sit, I need to get out of the house to do whatever. ;)
- uuilly 18y ago
  I don't think anyone's arguing against cars. I just think that American cars are less desirable than Japanese, Swedish or German cars. Cars are no doubt useful things.

by uuilly 18y ago

ssharp 18y ago

I don't think Paul Graham's analysis of the US auto industry is accurate at all. Toyota is the number one manufacturer of automobiles right now and outside of the Lexus brand, none of their designs are significantly more stylish than any GM product. Where Toyota was able to flank America was on quality. That advantage is pretty much over at this point as U.S. automakers have made huge strides in initial quality over the past several years and have implemented quality procedures on par with Toyota. In terms of style, Europe is well ahead of the U.S. but that is how they differentiate themselves. European cars are more expensive across the board than Japanese & U.S. If you look at the styling of Japanese and Korean cars, you're not going to see much of anything better than what GM and Ford are doing, yet Toyota, Hyundai, etc. are not having the difficulties that GM is having. Where GM is failing is in two things: marketing (mainly positioning and products) and labor. GM workers are making a lot more than Toyota assembly workers, especially those that have been around a long time. This problem is fixable with cooperation from the UAW but it's not going to be easy and a lot of buyouts will be necessary. The next problem with GM is that they failed to forecast the markets. They largely ignored the compact market, were behind the curve on crossovers, and didn't put enough money into their sedans. They put all their eggs in one basket with trucks & SUVs. Those vehicle sales were dropping off even before gas was $4/gallon. While their sedans have caught up to the Japanese in real terms, they still have a serious image problem and are still viewed as inferior. I haven't seen much advertising that really addresses these concerns. You can't reposition yourself overnight with advertising and you definitely cannot reposition yourself overnight with new/improved products but GM is on the right track. There are a lot of other macroeconomic conditions that get involved if GM does or does not receive bailout money but if they do get it, I don't think it will be wasted.

sown 18y ago

I'd feel better about an analysis from an expert on manufacturing and so forth, which I get the impression neither you, pg or me are. I dunno about throwing "innovation" around on cars; I think people use that word without caution or really thinking about what it means. When I grew up the nearest stop light was 20 miles away; cars were the only way to get around. Even now, living in Mountain View it's a hassle living without a car. Everywhere I've lived up until now was a huge hassle without a car, partly because it was so remote. A very large segment of the US lives like this and frankly, I don't like the idea of sharing a bus seat with strangers, waiting on trains, etc. I like the idea of automated cars as public transit and so forth but we shouldn't throw stuff out because it is old. The chair is lord only knows how old and just like I need to sit, I need to get out of the house to do whatever. ;)

uuilly 18y ago
I don't think anyone's arguing against cars. I just think that American cars are less desirable than Japanese, Swedish or German cars. Cars are no doubt useful things.