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There's no "the" scientific definition of race. There are various definitions of race that could be called scientific, although I'm not totally sure what it mea
by calderknight 3y ago
There's no "the" scientific definition of race. There are various definitions of race that could be called scientific, although I'm not totally sure what it means for a definition to be scientific. The only thing that could be called "the" scientific definition of race is the very unscientific definition that generally emerges like this:
> Genetic variation is greater within groups than between them :^) There is no biological justification for racial groupings :^) Race is purely a social construct :^)
Which admittedly isn't much of a definition but does make it clear (incorrectly) that there is no valid biological justification for racialism.
I define a race just like dictionaries did before the race-doesn't-exist-except-as-a-social-construct movement was established did:
>a group of people having common ancestors
- tomlockwood 3y agoDon't all humans have common ancestors?
- calderknight 3y agoYes, as far as I know all living things have common ancestors. A definition I wrote myself is this: > A race: a people who have been largely or totally isolated (in terms of procreation) from other peoples for a very great number of generations. Which is still very far from perfect. Definitions are difficult.
- tomlockwood 3y agoDuring what period (please tell me the years so I can understand) were white people "largely or totally isolated" from other people? In what area (would be great if you could show on a map) were they isolated?
- calderknight 3y agofrom their origin until today sorry not gonna do any maps, doesn't seem right to put 5x more effort into this conversation than you are
- tomlockwood 3y agoAlright, fair enough. I just haven't seen a map or a time period laid out that's ever explained this mythical whiteness. I don't think such a map exists, and all the racists I talk to always struggle to provide one. It'd be good to get a solid historically and biologically accurate outline from an intellectual heavyweight like yourself! Thanks for playing! What year did they originate and where, by the way?
- calderknight 3y agoI'm not an intellectual heavy-weight. I am good at formal logical and, also relevantly, at countering the statement "there is more genetic variation within racial groups than between them". I also care about the truth more than anything else which I guess is a good first step toward being an intellectual. I don't think I could make a good map of where the White race has lived over time even if I watnted to. I think it started somewhere in Europe in like 15,000 BC (very roughly), then spread throughout Europe, then had a colonial period during the last millennia where it colonised all over the world. Certainly I'm very far from an expert on this and it would depend obviously on the exact definition of the White race being used.
- tomlockwood 3y ago> I don't think I could make a good map of where the White race has lived over time even if I watnted to. I think... But let me stop you right there and ask you, if you think the white race is a real thing. Because if it requires at a minimum to be "largely" isolated from others, but you and I can't collectively identify with certainty where or when that isolation happened - I don't think either of us can definitively even say if "white" is a real race based on those requirements.
- calderknight 3y agoI mean, something in Europe was isolated at beginning at some point in time continuing to today. Whether I know their location at each year since their inception doesnt seem to matter that much