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On the other hand, in comparison to a hypothetical alien species, humans might seem highly aligned after all. Despite all our differences, there are at least s

On the other hand, in comparison to a hypothetical alien species, humans might seem highly aligned after all. Despite all our differences, there are at least some core values that I believe a majority of humans share. Even articulating these shared values in a way that is understood and respected by the AI is very difficult…

willvarfar 3y ago
Even if we could constrain AI by specifying rules, it would only takes one bad actor to create an AI that isn't constrained by the same rules as all the other AIs to have a shot at global domination. One can imagine how self-serving rather than humanity-serving the rules written for the prototypical dictator or fundamental religious leader would be :(
usrbinbash 3y ago
> there are at least some core values that I believe a majority of humans share. Really? What are those? Given that there are entire countries that refuse to, oh idk. punish things like rape adequately, and that we have nation states who happily tout their ability to burn down the planet, I'd really love to hear about these core values we all share.
- drdeca 3y ago
  At the most basic level: “don’t go into a town and pick a random person to murder”
  - usrbinbash 3y ago
    > At the most basic level: “don’t go into a town and pick a random person to murder” https://pledgetimes.com/russian-attack-the-traces-of-the-retreating-russians-reveal-more-and-more-gruesome-atrocities-bodies-burned-in-butcha-on-the-streets-and-a-mass-grave-of-civilians/ https://pledgetimes.com/russian-attack-the-traces-of-the-ret... My point isn't to say shared core values don't exist. They clearly do, that's why we call what's happening over in Ukraine war crimes. That's why the notion of humanitarianism exists, that's why laws against murder, rape, etc. are commonplace. My point is, that humans are, unfortunatly, able to willfully ignore even such basic shared values, and our technology does reflect that. Murder is bad. War is to be avoided. That's not in question. And yet societies develop and build ever more ingenious weapons of war. So "aligning by shared core values" might pose difficulties beyond the, already pretty difficult, task of defining these values in unambiguous and workable terms to a machine.
    - drdeca 3y ago
      well, the comment was about "the majority of humans", not even like, specifically "90%+ of humans" or something like that. I'm pretty sure that the majority of humans would agree that the type of random-murder I described, is wrong. I don't know what fraction of people are moral nihilists or subscribers to more extreme forms of moral relativism, but if excluding those, then of the remaining people, I think the proportion who agree with the value I mentioned, is probably pretty dang high!
TeMPOraL 3y ago
I think hypothetical naturally evolved alien species will be similar to us in the degree of species-level alignment. The reason we share so many complex values is because we share evolutionary history - thus body and brain architectures - and we live in the same environment. Between this and the more universal principles of game theory, there isn't much wiggle room for different value systems.

willvarfar 3y ago

Even if we could constrain AI by specifying rules, it would only takes one bad actor to create an AI that isn't constrained by the same rules as all the other AIs to have a shot at global domination. One can imagine how self-serving rather than humanity-serving the rules written for the prototypical dictator or fundamental religious leader would be :(

usrbinbash 3y ago

> there are at least some core values that I believe a majority of humans share. Really? What are those? Given that there are entire countries that refuse to, oh idk. punish things like rape adequately, and that we have nation states who happily tout their ability to burn down the planet, I'd really love to hear about these core values we all share.

drdeca 3y ago
At the most basic level: “don’t go into a town and pick a random person to murder”
- usrbinbash 3y ago
  > At the most basic level: “don’t go into a town and pick a random person to murder” https://pledgetimes.com/russian-attack-the-traces-of-the-retreating-russians-reveal-more-and-more-gruesome-atrocities-bodies-burned-in-butcha-on-the-streets-and-a-mass-grave-of-civilians/ https://pledgetimes.com/russian-attack-the-traces-of-the-ret... My point isn't to say shared core values don't exist. They clearly do, that's why we call what's happening over in Ukraine war crimes. That's why the notion of humanitarianism exists, that's why laws against murder, rape, etc. are commonplace. My point is, that humans are, unfortunatly, able to willfully ignore even such basic shared values, and our technology does reflect that. Murder is bad. War is to be avoided. That's not in question. And yet societies develop and build ever more ingenious weapons of war. So "aligning by shared core values" might pose difficulties beyond the, already pretty difficult, task of defining these values in unambiguous and workable terms to a machine.
  - drdeca 3y ago
    well, the comment was about "the majority of humans", not even like, specifically "90%+ of humans" or something like that. I'm pretty sure that the majority of humans would agree that the type of random-murder I described, is wrong. I don't know what fraction of people are moral nihilists or subscribers to more extreme forms of moral relativism, but if excluding those, then of the remaining people, I think the proportion who agree with the value I mentioned, is probably pretty dang high!

TeMPOraL 3y ago

I think hypothetical naturally evolved alien species will be similar to us in the degree of species-level alignment. The reason we share so many complex values is because we share evolutionary history - thus body and brain architectures - and we live in the same environment. Between this and the more universal principles of game theory, there isn't much wiggle room for different value systems.