6 ms·

One more step towards digital ID

rektide 3y ago
Yeah I absolutely hate it but yeah. Every time we feel sad & bad about the world, every time the Fear Uncertainty & Doubt is given places in our hearts, it makes us weak & susceptible. That's the premise of The Shock Doctrine & oh how sadly it's true. The web has two horrific fronts right now on this. Google is creating two specs, one to only let Attested devices through, and one to transmit government ID. So only users on devices they can't control, with id by government, can participate at all. This is what fear is bringing us to. People will welcome this hell. The end of the War Against General Purpose Computing will come with applause, from those who have been sold the message to be afraid. Coproate controlled devices only: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/blob/main/explainer.md https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/... Government ID required only: https://github.com/WICG/mobile-document-request-api https://github.com/WICG/mobile-document-request-api Or also see the Android Protected Confirmation API, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35942710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35942710 https://security.googleblog.com/2023/04/secure-mobile-payment-transactions.html https://security.googleblog.com/2023/04/secure-mobile-paymen...
- CSMastermind 3y ago
  What's the argument against requiring a government issued ID to interact with government systems? I mean I understand a case for anonymity for whistleblowers, etc. but it seems like if you want to file a complaint with the FCC then requiring you to prove that you're a real person who lives in the United States seems like a reasonable thing?
  - rektide 3y ago
    How do we discriminate on what use cases are acceptable or not? How do we prevent arbitrary sites from abroad soaking up gobs of very exact detailed government signed data? I don't see the active question as: are there valid uses? Maybe. Perhaps. But how can we create a tech so overpoweringly capable of destroying privacy at such a large scale responsibly, in a way that doesn't have horrific side effects?
  - Uvix 3y ago
    You shouldn't need to pay money to file a complaint with the FCC.
    - zdragnar 3y ago
      You need to prove who you are for all sorts of government interactions. Even getting a passport requires a small fee. Why should providing valid identification here be any different?
- kevinventullo 3y ago
  Or instead of pearl-clutching, how about suggesting something productive like a digital id that is only needed for public comments on work-in-progress legislation? There is quite a bit of daylight between that and 1984.
  - rektide 3y ago
    I don't hate the idea of this. Ideally what I'd like & have suggested is that citizens be able to get attestation of their content at their desired level. I should be able to get anything I write signed by varying levels of government, federal, state, or county, or neighborhood. I should be able to opt into how much identity to share: name, initials, some rotating psuedorandom identitifer, age bracket , income bracket, other core data. I've stated this repeatedly as I think the baseline of what I think a democratic society should offer, a way to enshrine real speech of citizens as citizens so desire. That would be a real service. What we have here is a vile screwing over of society by hostile powers thieving our liberties from us, locking down the world against humanity for their own sad shallow pathetic ends. These aren't pearls. These are basic rights to be human on this planet. Thanks.
    - landemva 3y ago
      Net neutrality, which allows Netflix to clog broadband pipes with entertainment, is a subsidy from broadband pipe provider to Netflix owners. Unlimited pipe cramming is not a human/corporate right.
    - edgyquant 3y ago
      > These are basic rights to be human on this planet. Net neutrality and being free from government ids isn’t a human right ordained by god. That’s a whole new level of ridiculous. People will claim any policy dear to their hearts is a human right ffs
      - rektide 3y ago
        It's super weird to me that there are not one but two rebutalls arguing a topic that never came up? Both from relatively longstanding ish accounts.
- edgyquant 3y ago
  Yeah I’m sorry but a government ID seems like the solution to so many issues here. I want to be able to have online discussions about political elections while being sure the people on the other end are actual voters and not spammers being paid to swing elections. I want people who create accounts just to spam and run blackmail rings to be identifiable. We already have social security numbers, online IDs are not that big of a deal.

Yeah I absolutely hate it but yeah. Every time we feel sad & bad about the world, every time the Fear Uncertainty & Doubt is given places in our hearts, it makes us weak & susceptible. That's the premise of The Shock Doctrine & oh how sadly it's true. The web has two horrific fronts right now on this. Google is creating two specs, one to only let Attested devices through, and one to transmit government ID. So only users on devices they can't control, with id by government, can participate at all. This is what fear is bringing us to. People will welcome this hell. The end of the War Against General Purpose Computing will come with applause, from those who have been sold the message to be afraid. Coproate controlled devices only: https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/blob/main/explainer.md https://github.com/RupertBenWiser/Web-Environment-Integrity/... Government ID required only: https://github.com/WICG/mobile-document-request-api https://github.com/WICG/mobile-document-request-api Or also see the Android Protected Confirmation API, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35942710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35942710 https://security.googleblog.com/2023/04/secure-mobile-payment-transactions.html https://security.googleblog.com/2023/04/secure-mobile-paymen...

CSMastermind 3y ago
What's the argument against requiring a government issued ID to interact with government systems? I mean I understand a case for anonymity for whistleblowers, etc. but it seems like if you want to file a complaint with the FCC then requiring you to prove that you're a real person who lives in the United States seems like a reasonable thing?
- rektide 3y ago
  How do we discriminate on what use cases are acceptable or not? How do we prevent arbitrary sites from abroad soaking up gobs of very exact detailed government signed data? I don't see the active question as: are there valid uses? Maybe. Perhaps. But how can we create a tech so overpoweringly capable of destroying privacy at such a large scale responsibly, in a way that doesn't have horrific side effects?
- Uvix 3y ago
  You shouldn't need to pay money to file a complaint with the FCC.
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    You need to prove who you are for all sorts of government interactions. Even getting a passport requires a small fee. Why should providing valid identification here be any different?
kevinventullo 3y ago
Or instead of pearl-clutching, how about suggesting something productive like a digital id that is only needed for public comments on work-in-progress legislation? There is quite a bit of daylight between that and 1984.
- rektide 3y ago
  I don't hate the idea of this. Ideally what I'd like & have suggested is that citizens be able to get attestation of their content at their desired level. I should be able to get anything I write signed by varying levels of government, federal, state, or county, or neighborhood. I should be able to opt into how much identity to share: name, initials, some rotating psuedorandom identitifer, age bracket , income bracket, other core data. I've stated this repeatedly as I think the baseline of what I think a democratic society should offer, a way to enshrine real speech of citizens as citizens so desire. That would be a real service. What we have here is a vile screwing over of society by hostile powers thieving our liberties from us, locking down the world against humanity for their own sad shallow pathetic ends. These aren't pearls. These are basic rights to be human on this planet. Thanks.
  - landemva 3y ago
    Net neutrality, which allows Netflix to clog broadband pipes with entertainment, is a subsidy from broadband pipe provider to Netflix owners. Unlimited pipe cramming is not a human/corporate right.
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    > These are basic rights to be human on this planet. Net neutrality and being free from government ids isn’t a human right ordained by god. That’s a whole new level of ridiculous. People will claim any policy dear to their hearts is a human right ffs
    - rektide 3y ago
      It's super weird to me that there are not one but two rebutalls arguing a topic that never came up? Both from relatively longstanding ish accounts.
edgyquant 3y ago
Yeah I’m sorry but a government ID seems like the solution to so many issues here. I want to be able to have online discussions about political elections while being sure the people on the other end are actual voters and not spammers being paid to swing elections. I want people who create accounts just to spam and run blackmail rings to be identifiable. We already have social security numbers, online IDs are not that big of a deal.