12 ms·

And there are a lot more parts to a software system.

aetherspawn 3y ago
I disagree, I do both, and a modern ECU hardware can be extremely complex .. more so than its software. This is because the hardware needs to meet a stack of conflicting specifications and standards for EMC, robustness, etc. Things need to work at a wide range of temperatures -40degC to 150degC. Optimising for one standard or parameter causes all your other calibration to go out of whack. Adding a protection element to the circuit can itself fail and be the reason that the circuit fails. At times it can be like the Jenga tower ready to topple over. Modern standards like ISO 26262 make it even more complicated because now we have to calculate and add up the failure probabilities of every single resistor and capacitor to find the whole-circuit failure probability, and in some applications we would need to prove less than 10 FIT (10 per trillion hours). Usually this can’t be reached without adding redundant components, and then maintaining the document trail to explain why they exist and can't be removed. And suppose you need to change a component in the design .. you have to find something to do with the 10,000 units of the old component that you bought a year ago before the design was finished because it was on back order for 100 weeks.
ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago
I have had feet in both worlds. I started as an EE, and have since moved to pure software. One of the cool things about writing drivers and firmware, is you can do real-world damage. I’ve blown up $40,000 RF scanners (in 1980s dollars), because I accidentally reversed the position of a switch. Also, if you think hardware systems are simpler than software, I invite you to open up a modern DSLR (not mirrorless) camera. I worked for a major camera manufacturer for many years, and saw some crazy complex stuff. But nothing I ever did can hold a candle to the OP.
- eichin 3y ago
  I think senior engineers should always have good "knowledge gained is proportional to equipment damaged" stories, they're great for helping juniors through their own "learning experiences". (At my current startup, the one about me and the founder/CTO figuring out how to use an API by experimenting on our only robot arm, resulting in slamming a $30k arm into a concrete wall (mmm, polar coordinates) is great for getting across "you'll be more careful next time, because look, really, there will be a next time!")
- doctor_eval 3y ago
  I’m not here to start any kind of software or hardware war since both are amazing fields that I respect and enjoy learning about. So rather than take this thread away from the amazing job done by the Juice team, I’ll just say great job and how amazing it all is.

I disagree, I do both, and a modern ECU hardware can be extremely complex .. more so than its software. This is because the hardware needs to meet a stack of conflicting specifications and standards for EMC, robustness, etc. Things need to work at a wide range of temperatures -40degC to 150degC. Optimising for one standard or parameter causes all your other calibration to go out of whack. Adding a protection element to the circuit can itself fail and be the reason that the circuit fails. At times it can be like the Jenga tower ready to topple over. Modern standards like ISO 26262 make it even more complicated because now we have to calculate and add up the failure probabilities of every single resistor and capacitor to find the whole-circuit failure probability, and in some applications we would need to prove less than 10 FIT (10 per trillion hours). Usually this can’t be reached without adding redundant components, and then maintaining the document trail to explain why they exist and can't be removed. And suppose you need to change a component in the design .. you have to find something to do with the 10,000 units of the old component that you bought a year ago before the design was finished because it was on back order for 100 weeks.

ChrisMarshallNY 3y ago

I have had feet in both worlds. I started as an EE, and have since moved to pure software. One of the cool things about writing drivers and firmware, is you can do real-world damage. I’ve blown up $40,000 RF scanners (in 1980s dollars), because I accidentally reversed the position of a switch. Also, if you think hardware systems are simpler than software, I invite you to open up a modern DSLR (not mirrorless) camera. I worked for a major camera manufacturer for many years, and saw some crazy complex stuff. But nothing I ever did can hold a candle to the OP.

eichin 3y ago
I think senior engineers should always have good "knowledge gained is proportional to equipment damaged" stories, they're great for helping juniors through their own "learning experiences". (At my current startup, the one about me and the founder/CTO figuring out how to use an API by experimenting on our only robot arm, resulting in slamming a $30k arm into a concrete wall (mmm, polar coordinates) is great for getting across "you'll be more careful next time, because look, really, there will be a next time!")
doctor_eval 3y ago
I’m not here to start any kind of software or hardware war since both are amazing fields that I respect and enjoy learning about. So rather than take this thread away from the amazing job done by the Juice team, I’ll just say great job and how amazing it all is.