4 ms·
> It was a symbol of fear and oppression The Russians, invaded twice by Germany in the 20th century, sought to withdraw completely from Germany, if it became a
by Convolutional 3y ago
> It was a symbol of fear and oppression
The Russians, invaded twice by Germany in the 20th century, sought to withdraw completely from Germany, if it became a neutral country like Switzerland or Austria. The West Germans continually refused this. By 1961 they through in the towel and the west Berlin enclave was sealed off. After the USSR broke up, Russian and German (and western) documents on this were released, which verified what happened at the time.
When Germany sought to reunite, the Prime Minister of the UK, Thatcher, sought behind closed doors to stop German reunification. So it was Gorbachev removing impediments to reunification and Thatcher seeking to create them.
- lisasays 3y agoBy 1961 they through in the towel and the west Berlin enclave was sealed off. The inevitable anti-fascist protection barrier. Forced into being by the conniving, obstreperous Western machinations, you see. At the end of the day - it was still about putting a bullet in the back of anyone who dared to cross.
- schroeding 3y agoWhich becomes clear when you realize that the anti-vehicle / tank ditches and the directional anti-personal mines ("Selbstschussanlagen") were facing the east direction only[1]. West German tanks and military vehicles could have driven over the ditches without major issues. They only worked one way - from east to west. [1] e.g. https://www.siue.edu/GEOGRAPHY/ONLINE/Vogeler/FortifiedFenced&WalledBorders.htm https://www.siue.edu/GEOGRAPHY/ONLINE/Vogeler/FortifiedFence...
- lostlogin 3y ago> The Russians, invaded twice by Germany in the 20th century This is entirely correct, however it also hides Soviet intent. They had tried hard with Germany without result. It wasn’t an invasion, but they were interfering and trying to achieve Revolution.
- hutzlibu 3y agoFun fact, in the beginning of the revolution, Lenin was send to russia by the german army command, in a special army train to destabilize russia. History is ironic.
- lostlogin 3y ago"in a sealed truck like a plague bacillus“ Churchill. There is a good book on it by Catherine Merridale: Lenin on the Train https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29847081-lenin-on-the-train https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/29847081-lenin-on-the-tr...
- simon_000666 3y ago“ The Russians, invaded twice by Germany in the 20th century” - technically in WW1 Russia mobilized her armies ahead of Germany and was the first to cross over state lines on august 17th 1914 - so in ww1 it’s more like Russia invades Germany.
- mcv 3y agoAlso, WW2 started with Germany and Russia invading Poland together. Because Hitler later betrayed Stalin, and Russia did by far the most work in defeating Nazi Germany, we have since learned to see Russia as one of the good guys in WW2, but they didn't start out that way; they were initially one of the aggressors, invading Poland, the Baltic states, and Finland.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago> invading Poland Ah, the convenience of ignoring Munich Agreement. >> In 1938, the Soviet Union was allied with France and Czechoslovakia. By September 1939, the Soviets were to all intents and purposes a co-belligerent with Nazi Germany, due to Stalin's fears of a second Munich Agreement with the Soviet Union replacing Czechoslovakia. Thus, the agreement indirectly contributed to the outbreak of war in 1939.[87]
- mcv 3y agoI'm not ignoring that at all, but it's quite a leap from misguided appeasement to arguing that that justified the invasions of Poland, the Baltic States and Finland. But the whole run up to WW2 definitely shows the folly of appeasing aggressors by rewarding their aggression. A lesson that's definitely relevant today.
- justsomehnguy 3y ago> but it's quite a leap from misguided appeasement There were quite a lot of actions which guided the Soviets up to 1939 and I can't say these were 'misguided appeasement'. It takes a lot to convince someone to work with people whose anthem contains 'Kam'raden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen / Marschier'n im Geist in unser'n Reihen mit.'
- dantyti 3y agosome bold claims here, could you please link your sources/documents? > sought to withdraw completely from Germany, if it became a neutral country like Switzerland or Austria this bargain didn't work out too well for Czechoslovakia.
- Wildgoose 3y agoTo be fair, Czechoslovakia was part of the Warsaw Pact. The USSR withdrew from Austria in return for Austria becoming a neutral country. I presume the commenter is suggesting that the same approach would have worked for Germany.