37 ms·

I stopped reading at “Vegan Leather”. Can we call it what it is? Plastic.

codeulike 3y ago
Why dont we call leather what it is - chemically treated skin Because we're allowed to put words to new uses Language is open-source
- duxup 3y ago
  I know what leather is. I’ve no idea what “vegan leather” is. Plastic, some sort of plant material, something else?
  - gyanreyer 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - thfuran 3y ago
    You can't charge nearly as much for "plastic" as for "vegan leather" though.
    - duxup 3y ago
      It’s funny how that works. I remember when fake leather was generally thought of as a bad thing, granted at times it could be really plastic like and brittle…. but at some point it clearly became both cheaper and really durable. I wouldn’t mind if it just said “plastic” or “imitation leather”. It’s not a bad thing to my ears. I’m remodeling my house and all the flooring I’m looking at looks like wood…. but it is not wood and I like that.
      - bornfreddy 3y ago
        Is the platic leather durable though? Aside from the cars interior, I haven't noticed one that lasted more than a few years. Headphones are especially annoying in that the covers start falling apart long before other parts break.
        Kirby64 3y ago
        It can be. The answer is 'it depends'. The polyurethane based 'vegan leather' used in many automotive applications is typically more durable than leather. It also doesn't have any of the issues with regular leather related to drying out (it tends to crack if you don't add conditioners to it).
- thfuran 3y ago
  That doesn't mean mean every conceivable use of words is helpful or desirable. "Vegan leather" is an oxymoron that only tells you what it isn't. It's barely more useful than "non-wooden".
- RobotToaster 3y ago
  >Why dont we call leather what it is - chemically treated skin Because that's literally the definition of leather: "a material made from the skin of an animal by tanning or a similar process." You may as well argue we should call headphones "a pair of earphones joined by a band placed over the head, for listening to audio signals such as music or speech."
  - codeulike 3y ago
    That was exactly my point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_leather https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_leather
jack_pp 3y ago
Is it plastic though? I remember seeing youtube clips where some companies make "vegan leather" from mushrooms. Plastic isn't quite the correct word here, when I think of plastic I think of hard plastic like in tupperware.
- pengaru 3y ago
  The complaint here is that it's nebulous b.s. marketing speak that only means "leather-looking without involving animal products" ... and probably some kind of plastic.
  - jack_pp 3y ago
    Yeah I understood his comment but plastic would be just a wrong word for it.
masfuerte 3y ago
Plastic is ambiguous. There are many kinds. The word you want is pleather.
sircastor 3y ago
Because that's not what people care about in this context. People are looking at this picture and they see something that looks like leather. You say "Vegan Leather" and the message they get is "No animals were killed for this product." "I want the look and feel of leather, but not the specific ethical concerns."
- userbinator 3y ago
  I see "vegan" and I think "plant-based", which I doubt is the case here.
  - detaro 3y ago
    Especially since we had the term "fake leather" or "imitation leather" for a long time.
- willis936 3y ago
  There's a term for that that's been used for decades: pleather, or plastic leather. Rebranding just confuses the already confusing world of materials. It's a violation of the cooperative principle to sell a product: a shitty practice and not something on brand with "fair" and "open". Why not rebrand it "fossil fuel-based leather"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_leather https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_leather https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/fashion/when-did-we-start-calling-fake-leather-vegan-leather-20191014-p530gs.html https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/fashion/when-did-we-start-c...
- shjake 3y ago
  Faux leather or synthetic leather seem honest enough. IMHO “vegan” implies it’s made from plan material and/or biodegradable if not edible
- krick 3y ago
  > "No animals were killed for this product." Then this isn't leather. Let's just call things by their names.
uxcolumbo 3y ago
Because it wouldn't be very descriptive of the material texture & feel. Vegan leather is basically trying to explain to the customer that it is like leather but not made from animal skin. In the car industry they don't say seats covered in plastic - they say PU leather. Vegan leather is 100% PU leather.
- detaro 3y ago
  > Vegan leather is 100% PU leather. Or PVC. Or plant fibers stabilized with PLA and resin (those tend to make big deal about the "plant" part). or ...
- shjake 3y ago
  I’m sure most customers are more aware of fake/faux/synthetic leather than vegan leather. It’s an attempt to rebrand it since those terms generally have negative historical connotations
- npteljes 3y ago
  That's not why. It's just a marketing spin on synthetic leather, and the marketing choice is both because veganism got popular and seen as a positive thing, and because PU leather, faux leather etc has established connotations as inferior substitutes to leather. They don't want you to feel that they cheap you out on the good thing. And the car industry totally does the same. Look, for example, here: https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/general/2022/vegan-interior.html https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/general/2022/vegan-interior...
smoldesu 3y ago
"Corinthian leather" is also meaningless, but it certainly doesn't stop ad copywriters from using the term if it sounds fancy.
- RobotToaster 3y ago
  Corinth is famous for its leather!
orthoxerox 3y ago
[flagged]
makeitdouble 3y ago
"Plastic" generates weird hang ups in many people apparently. Looking at phone reviews, how reviewers insist on metal/glass material as having a "premium feel", and plastic parts getting described at best as "plastic but not cheap", I'd understand wanting to change the terminology. The stone shouldn't be thrown at the maker on this one.

Why dont we call leather what it is - chemically treated skin Because we're allowed to put words to new uses Language is open-source

duxup 3y ago
I know what leather is. I’ve no idea what “vegan leather” is. Plastic, some sort of plant material, something else?
- gyanreyer 3y ago
  [flagged]
- thfuran 3y ago
  You can't charge nearly as much for "plastic" as for "vegan leather" though.
  - duxup 3y ago
    It’s funny how that works. I remember when fake leather was generally thought of as a bad thing, granted at times it could be really plastic like and brittle…. but at some point it clearly became both cheaper and really durable. I wouldn’t mind if it just said “plastic” or “imitation leather”. It’s not a bad thing to my ears. I’m remodeling my house and all the flooring I’m looking at looks like wood…. but it is not wood and I like that.
    - bornfreddy 3y ago
      Is the platic leather durable though? Aside from the cars interior, I haven't noticed one that lasted more than a few years. Headphones are especially annoying in that the covers start falling apart long before other parts break.
      - Kirby64 3y ago
        It can be. The answer is 'it depends'. The polyurethane based 'vegan leather' used in many automotive applications is typically more durable than leather. It also doesn't have any of the issues with regular leather related to drying out (it tends to crack if you don't add conditioners to it).
thfuran 3y ago
That doesn't mean mean every conceivable use of words is helpful or desirable. "Vegan leather" is an oxymoron that only tells you what it isn't. It's barely more useful than "non-wooden".
RobotToaster 3y ago
>Why dont we call leather what it is - chemically treated skin Because that's literally the definition of leather: "a material made from the skin of an animal by tanning or a similar process." You may as well argue we should call headphones "a pair of earphones joined by a band placed over the head, for listening to audio signals such as music or speech."
- codeulike 3y ago
  That was exactly my point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_leather https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan_leather

jack_pp 3y ago

Is it plastic though? I remember seeing youtube clips where some companies make "vegan leather" from mushrooms. Plastic isn't quite the correct word here, when I think of plastic I think of hard plastic like in tupperware.

pengaru 3y ago
The complaint here is that it's nebulous b.s. marketing speak that only means "leather-looking without involving animal products" ... and probably some kind of plastic.
- jack_pp 3y ago
  Yeah I understood his comment but plastic would be just a wrong word for it.

masfuerte 3y ago

Plastic is ambiguous. There are many kinds. The word you want is pleather.

sircastor 3y ago

Because that's not what people care about in this context. People are looking at this picture and they see something that looks like leather. You say "Vegan Leather" and the message they get is "No animals were killed for this product." "I want the look and feel of leather, but not the specific ethical concerns."

userbinator 3y ago
I see "vegan" and I think "plant-based", which I doubt is the case here.
- detaro 3y ago
  Especially since we had the term "fake leather" or "imitation leather" for a long time.
willis936 3y ago
There's a term for that that's been used for decades: pleather, or plastic leather. Rebranding just confuses the already confusing world of materials. It's a violation of the cooperative principle to sell a product: a shitty practice and not something on brand with "fair" and "open". Why not rebrand it "fossil fuel-based leather"? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_leather https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_leather https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/fashion/when-did-we-start-calling-fake-leather-vegan-leather-20191014-p530gs.html https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/fashion/when-did-we-start-c...
shjake 3y ago
Faux leather or synthetic leather seem honest enough. IMHO “vegan” implies it’s made from plan material and/or biodegradable if not edible
krick 3y ago
> "No animals were killed for this product." Then this isn't leather. Let's just call things by their names.

uxcolumbo 3y ago

Because it wouldn't be very descriptive of the material texture & feel. Vegan leather is basically trying to explain to the customer that it is like leather but not made from animal skin. In the car industry they don't say seats covered in plastic - they say PU leather. Vegan leather is 100% PU leather.

detaro 3y ago
> Vegan leather is 100% PU leather. Or PVC. Or plant fibers stabilized with PLA and resin (those tend to make big deal about the "plant" part). or ...
shjake 3y ago
I’m sure most customers are more aware of fake/faux/synthetic leather than vegan leather. It’s an attempt to rebrand it since those terms generally have negative historical connotations
npteljes 3y ago
That's not why. It's just a marketing spin on synthetic leather, and the marketing choice is both because veganism got popular and seen as a positive thing, and because PU leather, faux leather etc has established connotations as inferior substitutes to leather. They don't want you to feel that they cheap you out on the good thing. And the car industry totally does the same. Look, for example, here: https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/general/2022/vegan-interior.html https://www.bmwgroup.com/en/news/general/2022/vegan-interior...

smoldesu 3y ago

"Corinthian leather" is also meaningless, but it certainly doesn't stop ad copywriters from using the term if it sounds fancy.

RobotToaster 3y ago
Corinth is famous for its leather!

orthoxerox 3y ago

[flagged]

makeitdouble 3y ago

"Plastic" generates weird hang ups in many people apparently. Looking at phone reviews, how reviewers insist on metal/glass material as having a "premium feel", and plastic parts getting described at best as "plastic but not cheap", I'd understand wanting to change the terminology. The stone shouldn't be thrown at the maker on this one.