4 ms·

It means whatever you want it to mean - or nothing at all. I like to say that I'm a "secular Christian" - which also means nothing. Is merely a play on words.

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
> which also means nothing "Secular jew" is not meaningless at all, it speaks about ethnic and cultural heritage. Incidentally, before anyone says "if you're secular you're not Jewish" being "secular" does not exempt someone from prejudice, they would still be identified as "a jew" by racists, as this story of a Secular Jew, "born into a family of secular Jews" makes clear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#1933:_Emigration_to_the_US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#1933:_Emigrati... > I like to say that I'm a "secular Christian" You could say that. Although Christianity is less rooted in ethnicity than Judaism is, but if your family are predominantly Christian for many generations, and it is your cultural background, then it would be accurate. Even meaningful.
- intrasight 3y ago
  There is no more a Jewish gene than there is a Black gene or a Christian gene.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
    Firstly that is reductive, simplistic; ancestry and culture is not the same as "a gene". And lumping "Christian" and "black" as the same kind of category regarding genetics is just very odd indeed. Second it's not entirely accurate, as any online genetic testing service will give a good estimate at e.g. percentage of Ashkenazi heritage. Thirdly and most importantly, it's not an answer to the above even if it was true, as it doesn't engage with the real existence - both for good and bad - of the ethnic heritage as given in the recent historical example above. Or, as the other reply put it: "as a (secular) Jewish person, I'm still eligible for citizenship of Palestine/Israel, and also eligible for targeting by white supremicists/neonazis". Neither of those two groups are going to ask "how often do you go to temple?" regarding someone's perceived Jewishness.
    - intrasight 3y ago
      I'm sure I have a lot of Ashkenazi in me. And of course I'm proud of my genes. And proud of my ancestors. I'm fine with people self-identifying as Jewish, or Black, or (myself) Read-headed. The risk is when other people put those labels upon you. When you label your tribe, you not only label yourself but also those who may prefer not to be labeled.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
        I am certain that "race", as meaningful, well defined categories with clear, sharp edges, exists only in the minds of racists. From the rest of us, don't ask for a simple definition, as it's an illusionary, fuzzy concept. But it's all very well to say that you "prefer not to be labelled", that it's simply a matter of "self-identifying". It would be good if that was all it was, But you might not be able to avoid categorisation. You can't entirely ignore the definitions of racists who wish you harm.
        intrasight 3y ago
        I seriously do count my blessings that there's no racism against red-heads where and when I live. I know there was in medieval times. I can easily imagine such nonsense still existing.

SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago

> which also means nothing "Secular jew" is not meaningless at all, it speaks about ethnic and cultural heritage. Incidentally, before anyone says "if you're secular you're not Jewish" being "secular" does not exempt someone from prejudice, they would still be identified as "a jew" by racists, as this story of a Secular Jew, "born into a family of secular Jews" makes clear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#1933:_Emigration_to_the_US https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#1933:_Emigrati... > I like to say that I'm a "secular Christian" You could say that. Although Christianity is less rooted in ethnicity than Judaism is, but if your family are predominantly Christian for many generations, and it is your cultural background, then it would be accurate. Even meaningful.

intrasight 3y ago
There is no more a Jewish gene than there is a Black gene or a Christian gene.
- SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
  Firstly that is reductive, simplistic; ancestry and culture is not the same as "a gene". And lumping "Christian" and "black" as the same kind of category regarding genetics is just very odd indeed. Second it's not entirely accurate, as any online genetic testing service will give a good estimate at e.g. percentage of Ashkenazi heritage. Thirdly and most importantly, it's not an answer to the above even if it was true, as it doesn't engage with the real existence - both for good and bad - of the ethnic heritage as given in the recent historical example above. Or, as the other reply put it: "as a (secular) Jewish person, I'm still eligible for citizenship of Palestine/Israel, and also eligible for targeting by white supremicists/neonazis". Neither of those two groups are going to ask "how often do you go to temple?" regarding someone's perceived Jewishness.
  - intrasight 3y ago
    I'm sure I have a lot of Ashkenazi in me. And of course I'm proud of my genes. And proud of my ancestors. I'm fine with people self-identifying as Jewish, or Black, or (myself) Read-headed. The risk is when other people put those labels upon you. When you label your tribe, you not only label yourself but also those who may prefer not to be labeled.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 3y ago
      I am certain that "race", as meaningful, well defined categories with clear, sharp edges, exists only in the minds of racists. From the rest of us, don't ask for a simple definition, as it's an illusionary, fuzzy concept. But it's all very well to say that you "prefer not to be labelled", that it's simply a matter of "self-identifying". It would be good if that was all it was, But you might not be able to avoid categorisation. You can't entirely ignore the definitions of racists who wish you harm.
      - intrasight 3y ago
        I seriously do count my blessings that there's no racism against red-heads where and when I live. I know there was in medieval times. I can easily imagine such nonsense still existing.