4 ms·

What language don't require type annotations to achieve good performance?, more specifically tell me any programming language that can beat sbcl at speed withou

What language don't require type annotations to achieve good performance?, more specifically tell me any programming language that can beat sbcl at speed without using type annotations.

moonchild 3y ago
self, javascript (v8), java (hotspot; generics are latently monomorphised according to hotness; also see 'invokedynamic'), apl (apl\3000)
- AnimalMuppet 3y ago
  I don't think you can say that java "doesn't use type annotations".
  - tmtvl 3y ago
    Well, technically you do have the var keyword now. var x = MyAwesomeClassFactoryBeanTemplate.getBean().getFactoryInstance().createNewMyAwesomeClass(foo, bar);
    - kirankp89 3y ago
      I am not super familiar with Java but that syntax typically implies type inference, which is not the same as not needing type annotations.
      - bcrosby95 3y ago
        Not only is it type inference, it's limited to locally declared variables.
hayley-patton 3y ago
Not having used them, I'd expect the Truffle implementations of Python and Ruby to do well, seeing as Graal handles #2-5 of moonchild's list. From there #1 might fall out. (Apparently the fancy GCs for #6 are only in the Enterprise Edition though?) I'm working on a better, parallel but still far from Java state-of-the-art GC for SBCL <https://zenodo.org/record/7816398 https://zenodo.org/record/7816398> - which presumably is some skin in the game.
- pebal 3y ago
  Look at this real-time garbage collector for C++: https://github.com/pebal/sgcl https://github.com/pebal/sgcl
  - hayley-patton 3y ago
    Is there any documentation on the algorithm used?
    - pebal 3y ago
      The Mark and Sweep algorithm with tri-color marking variation was used. There is no documentation yet, but I am happy to answer your questions (snibisz@gmail.com).
- anthk 3y ago
  Yeah, state of the art GC, but SBCL and ECL run circles on performance compared to any Java turd, even if being AOT compiled with GRAAL. Just compare the Nyxt web browser with any Java monster out there.
  - hayley-patton 3y ago
    Do they? I had to help SBCL with bounds checks (read: disable them) when porting the Java NonBlockingHashMap to Common Lisp. Perhaps still too micro- a benchmark, and I've indeed made turds with Spring, but the rest of HotSpot would do wonders on non-turd programs. (Would also expect Graal with JIT to be faster than AOT after warmup, but no experience there.)

What language don't require type annotations to achieve good performance?, more specifically tell me any programming language that can beat sbcl at speed without using type annotations.

moonchild 3y ago

self, javascript (v8), java (hotspot; generics are latently monomorphised according to hotness; also see 'invokedynamic'), apl (apl\3000)

AnimalMuppet 3y ago
I don't think you can say that java "doesn't use type annotations".
- tmtvl 3y ago
  Well, technically you do have the var keyword now. var x = MyAwesomeClassFactoryBeanTemplate.getBean().getFactoryInstance().createNewMyAwesomeClass(foo, bar);
  - kirankp89 3y ago
    I am not super familiar with Java but that syntax typically implies type inference, which is not the same as not needing type annotations.
    - bcrosby95 3y ago
      Not only is it type inference, it's limited to locally declared variables.

hayley-patton 3y ago

Not having used them, I'd expect the Truffle implementations of Python and Ruby to do well, seeing as Graal handles #2-5 of moonchild's list. From there #1 might fall out. (Apparently the fancy GCs for #6 are only in the Enterprise Edition though?) I'm working on a better, parallel but still far from Java state-of-the-art GC for SBCL <https://zenodo.org/record/7816398 https://zenodo.org/record/7816398> - which presumably is some skin in the game.

pebal 3y ago
Look at this real-time garbage collector for C++: https://github.com/pebal/sgcl https://github.com/pebal/sgcl
- hayley-patton 3y ago
  Is there any documentation on the algorithm used?
  - pebal 3y ago
    The Mark and Sweep algorithm with tri-color marking variation was used. There is no documentation yet, but I am happy to answer your questions (snibisz@gmail.com).
anthk 3y ago
Yeah, state of the art GC, but SBCL and ECL run circles on performance compared to any Java turd, even if being AOT compiled with GRAAL. Just compare the Nyxt web browser with any Java monster out there.
- hayley-patton 3y ago
  Do they? I had to help SBCL with bounds checks (read: disable them) when porting the Java NonBlockingHashMap to Common Lisp. Perhaps still too micro- a benchmark, and I've indeed made turds with Spring, but the rest of HotSpot would do wonders on non-turd programs. (Would also expect Graal with JIT to be faster than AOT after warmup, but no experience there.)