4 ms·

I don't think people understand that Xorg is truly dead. Wayland is essentially X12. Everyone who used to work on X now works in Wayland. You should not have an

by mort96 4y ago

I don't think people understand that Xorg is truly dead. Wayland is essentially X12. Everyone who used to work on X now works in Wayland. You should not have an expectation that Xorg will keep working. You should not have an expectation that bugs will be fixed. You should not have an expectation that new hardware will work well with Xorg. If you want to go against the tide, you truly are on your own. You should expect less and less things to work over time as Xorg's code rots, X backends for GUI frameworks rot, and new hardware and drivers expose X bugs which won't be fixed. If this doesn't scream "it's time to move away", I don't really know what does. Nobody can force anyone to move of course. But the writing truly is on the wall.

alanfranz 4y ago
> I don't really know what does. My desktop not working, or apps being blurred, or slower, or my mouse cursor stuttering, or screen sharing not working, or Java apps not getting the hidpi settings. That’s what drives me away from Wayland, and all of those happened to me. I don’t think anybody is against Wayland “just because”. When it matures and app support is better, we’ll switch.
- kaba0 4y ago
  Apps being blurred are old x apps running in xwayland compat mode, they are not slower at all (full-screen games can circumvent the compositor for a long time now), and the rest are not typical at all.
  - alanfranz 4y ago
    I don’t care about what’s typical, I care about my own workflow. What is the “typical” linux desktop workflow, btw? It’s probably an OS used by a bunch of geeks, everybody’s got his own quirks.
- mort96 4y ago
  I understand that it might not work for you. That's unfortunate. But you shouldn't expect Xorg to keep working for you either. The time where Xorg is a well-maintained project is past us. That's the point.
  - okasaki 4y ago
    The only thing that matters is what works better, and that's Xorg.
    - ezst 4y ago
      Is it, though? Wayland has solved a bunch of problems that I had become used to under Xorg to the point of not noticing anymore, and even though I bumped into new issues on Wayland at first (and tbh there are still few open out there), going back to Xorg nowadays feels like going backwards.
      - okasaki 4y ago
        Yeah, Xorg is better. It's faster, more stable, uses less power, and has more features, and more environments. 14 years later there's still no rational reason to run Wayland, and I doubt there ever will be.
        ezst 4y ago
        I mean, it's funny that you say so, because with the exception of "more environments", I've observed the exact opposite :) I'm a simple user with simple needs, though apparently that's already pushing the limits of what Xorg can deliver: I have a high-DPI laptop scaled 140%, and a secondary high-res/average-DPI display at 100%. Mixing scaling factors has never worked well under Xorg (rendering glitches with ghost lines, applications like drop down terminals not knowing the dimensions of their viewport when opened on one screen and then or the other). And I'm not even getting into the better handling of discrete GPUs or the much smoother scrolling/animations that give it a better polish. Xorg totally made sense in the context in which it was invented (in the long forgotten era of server-side rendering), but with applications rendering their own widgets and passing pixmaps to the compositor, Wayland is mostly about cutting the middleman and breaking-off with the obsolete/unmaintained/insecure bits. If you grab a distro with the latest gnome/kde, you should be at a point where Wayland really is only upsides.
        kaba0 4y ago

by mort96 4y ago

alanfranz 4y ago

> I don't really know what does. My desktop not working, or apps being blurred, or slower, or my mouse cursor stuttering, or screen sharing not working, or Java apps not getting the hidpi settings. That’s what drives me away from Wayland, and all of those happened to me. I don’t think anybody is against Wayland “just because”. When it matures and app support is better, we’ll switch.

kaba0 4y ago
Apps being blurred are old x apps running in xwayland compat mode, they are not slower at all (full-screen games can circumvent the compositor for a long time now), and the rest are not typical at all.
- alanfranz 4y ago
  I don’t care about what’s typical, I care about my own workflow. What is the “typical” linux desktop workflow, btw? It’s probably an OS used by a bunch of geeks, everybody’s got his own quirks.
mort96 4y ago
I understand that it might not work for you. That's unfortunate. But you shouldn't expect Xorg to keep working for you either. The time where Xorg is a well-maintained project is past us. That's the point.
- okasaki 4y ago
  The only thing that matters is what works better, and that's Xorg.
  - ezst 4y ago
    Is it, though? Wayland has solved a bunch of problems that I had become used to under Xorg to the point of not noticing anymore, and even though I bumped into new issues on Wayland at first (and tbh there are still few open out there), going back to Xorg nowadays feels like going backwards.
    - okasaki 4y ago
      Yeah, Xorg is better. It's faster, more stable, uses less power, and has more features, and more environments. 14 years later there's still no rational reason to run Wayland, and I doubt there ever will be.
      - ezst 4y ago
        I mean, it's funny that you say so, because with the exception of "more environments", I've observed the exact opposite :) I'm a simple user with simple needs, though apparently that's already pushing the limits of what Xorg can deliver: I have a high-DPI laptop scaled 140%, and a secondary high-res/average-DPI display at 100%. Mixing scaling factors has never worked well under Xorg (rendering glitches with ghost lines, applications like drop down terminals not knowing the dimensions of their viewport when opened on one screen and then or the other). And I'm not even getting into the better handling of discrete GPUs or the much smoother scrolling/animations that give it a better polish. Xorg totally made sense in the context in which it was invented (in the long forgotten era of server-side rendering), but with applications rendering their own widgets and passing pixmaps to the compositor, Wayland is mostly about cutting the middleman and breaking-off with the obsolete/unmaintained/insecure bits. If you grab a distro with the latest gnome/kde, you should be at a point where Wayland really is only upsides.
      - kaba0 4y ago